That’s the dumbest ■■■■ I’ve ever heard. So my 4 hour trip will now take 5 or 6 since I’ll have to build a new indy in every station?
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for I am Costanza, lord of the idiots!
Thanks for making me use up all my saved skill points on cyno 5 you pricks
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Yea I’ll open up this can of worms again. Yea it was a less than stellar move for CCP to make midpoint changes on this. But given you can apply saved skillpoints instantly, same as applying an injector instantly it would have been far smarter to wait until the patch notes we got a couple days ago. That way you could have been sure if you actually needed to “waste” them or not.
That’s true, Derath, but it would still be a kind and thoughtful gesture from CCP to allow skillpoints used for this purpose to be refunded into the gifting queue, when their proposed change is the cause of the points having been applied wastefully.
Also, others didn’t spend free gifted skillpoints but started their characters training (wasted). For example, I have one account with two cynos and needed to immediately start one of them training these changes for Covert Cynos immediately, as even with an immediate start to training I wouldn’t be able to finish the 2nd character before the changes. Now the skillpoints trained in real time are wasted, needlessly, due to CCP’s changes.
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If there was a way to accurately track the use of saved skillpoints/injectors then I would agree it would be nice, even if it was a case of having to open a ticket. At the same time, EVE is an excellent game that reinforces the importance of personal accountability, which IMO is sorely missing in much of modern life.
I also agree. In fact above in this long thread I mentioned the same thing. Me, being essentially cheap did in fact train my cyno alts (pausing my mains) for several weeks until the instrial cyno addendum was announced. I agree that this who process was handled poorly (unprofessionally) as I mentioned numerous times in my other replies. And I do have sympathy for those who actually tried to adjust their training queues to be ready.
I have less sympathy for people who used save SP or injectors way earlier than they had to. I also point it out because it doesn’t help the discussion.
There are plenty of very valid arguments why this whole change is very bad, simply on their gameplay merits. Having people complain because they used SP too early detracts from those valid arguments.
[edit]
At this point it is all largely moot, as CCP is forging ahead with these changes. At this point we probably can only help make the point in more obvious ways. I for one will be keeping my JF docked after this change.
единственное хорошее изменение за пол года.
Только его скорее всего не будет).
EVE is a database. They can track the changes.
One small point that may well have been highlighted before:
With this change you are severely disrupting all nullsec logistics. And you could manage it better.
So yeah I fly a JF and I jump it down a 6 cyno route using rookie ships. The alts are all trained to fly industrial ships, so I have already prepared by taking industrial ships out to those locations for the alts to use.
The problem is that I cant take the cynos until after they are needed. So I can’t use the new mechanics until I buy a BPO and build some.
You could have released the BPO and the module already, so that we are prepared. As it is we now have to fly the new module out to our alts, adding more tedium to what is already a generally pretty boring task.
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Industrial cynos still not seeded on markets, the day before the patch launches, so no chance to actually keep JF cyno chains active without extra logistics.
There’s still a month-long train time needed for characters to fly an indy cyno on a ship that won’t instantly die in null (and the long train-times was a common complaint about the covert cynos for JFs).
The restriction to industrial ships seems arbitrary, given CCP’s previous statement that the Chaos Cyno changes aren’t trying to target JF logistics. This ship restriction will vastly increase the time and ISK commitment needed to set up a cyno chain, for no apparent gain: it still isn’t going to create any meaningful content, just increase the headache for JF pilots. If the goal is to make JF cynos more risky, then make that clear. I just can’t see why you’d want to.
The original covert cyno plan for JFs wasn’t great, so it’s honestly appreciated that you’re willing to iterate on your plans. But the current solution is genuinely worse in several ways.
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dont worry most ppl already turn off accounts , in hi-sec u dont need cynos
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At this point they’ve proven they’d rather listen to a few big mouths on reddit than the vast majority of their customers on their own forums. By proceeding with this change, you can clearly see that.
Enjoy CCP, you are about to lose a LOT of subs.
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They won’t respond to you on here, try Reddit. That’s their preferred method of communicating with their player base it seems.
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Actually in hindsight the covert change was gonna be pretty cool. Given the nature of the covert cyno, especially the much shorter cycle, it would have been pretty nice.
Just speculating but there could be at least a perception that posting on the eve forums is more “official” than on reddit and therefore is easier to post there. That way they can still say they didn’t “officially” make a statement. I dunno, just a guess.
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Debatable.
Shorter cycle would’ve been neat, and honestly that could have been put on the indy cyno.
But the huge extra train requirement on all cyno alts, together with the significant ISK investment required on each grid for every jump in a chain was pretty bonkers, and made the overall decision broken.
Having a covert cyno adds next-to-nothing to a JF pilot, who is going to be jumping within dock range of a citadel/station anyway. Lowsec entries to high, in particular, would have had every JF pilot feeding hundreds of millions in cyno ships for every trip back to Jita.
The indy cyno improves on the covert cyno plan by:
- getting rid of the extra month of training into covops, as well as
- getting rid of the super-high-ISK requirement on cyno-capable ships.
Instead, the current indy cyno will:
- add an extra month of training into T2 industrials (as these will be the only ships realistically capable of seeding those initial cyno locations in a new chain),
- add a moderately-high-ISK requirement on cyno-capable ships (those T2 industrials for the initial jumps), and
- add a huge, meaningless time sink to managing cyno chains as multiple 20k m3 hulls now need to be hauled and restocked in every cyno location, to nobody’s benefit.
Well, if there was going to be a change I would have been happier having to train for covert vs the current Industrial cyno.
As I’ve explained above, it is even worse for those of us who contract haul. I don’t have the luxury of stocking my route as every route is different.
@CCP_Rise Have you even read any of the responses since the last time you updated this “proposed change”. Your own forums say that last time you were seen was “Aug 26” when you updated the thread so I doubt that you did. If you did you would have noticed that people don’t like the addition of the industrial cynos for many reasons. Reasons you would have found out if you read any of the responses to the change.
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Adding my voice to the increasingly squeaky wheel: @CCP_Rise, obviously you can’t reply to every comment in every thread, but it would be appreciated if you (or another community-oriented CCPer) could speak up with an acknowledgement of our concerns here in this one.
Are the devs hoping to address these potential problems post-patch (alliteration bingo!), or planning to let it ride and see how things shake out more medium-term? The extra burden of time, training, and ISK for JF pilots seems excessive to many of us; is the extra burden intentional?
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With the covert cyno there would have been less cyno ships loss because the cyno don’t show on overview and only last 60 seconds. Yes training requirements would have been a bit steeper but it would have been worth it. especially in the age of injectors.
Also the reason according to the post from Aug. 26 was that the industrial cyno would solve the issue of cyno vigils. They should have created a vigil cyno that could have been used on any ship.
First time I see a company being actively mean to their customers. This change adds nothing to the gameplay and I will tell you what… you can ha ha hi hi all day long but if you do not revert this stupid change you are abut to lose 50 euros a month. Ha ha hi hi?
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