Citadel proliferation is a problem which needs to be addressed

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
61

I kind of wish there were some sort of diminishing returns. A citadel for a small developing corporation can be a huge deal towards benefiting members and helping them progress. Making structures easier to destroy or harder to defend only helps the huge megacorporations.

Maybe create some sort on communication system requirement that a Corp needs to build/fuel for a designated structure and require increasingly more difficult requirements to build/power it for each additional citadel in the network. Just an idea off the top of my head.

2 Likes
65

actually yes I am, as a agent of the Code Anti-Citadel Division, my group destroys Citadels. We should be revamping up soon.

1 Like
66

Good, then do your job and quit asking CCP to do it for you.

1 Like
67

I removed some off topic banter between two individuals.

3 Likes
68

Can’t players take action against citadel proliferation? Start blowing them up. It isn’t that big a deal.

1 Like
69

Currently, the biggest problem I see is that the final timer is too short, especially considering that the defender can choose both the day and the time zone that the Citadel will have it’s 4h final timer in.

I’m luckily not involved in Sov warfare (because I enjoy PVP, not weaponized boredom) but we often shoot up a few Citadels somewhere to provoke a fight and even we, as a fairly small entity, fighting fairly small entities have had the problem that all of the enemies Citadels will be entering their final timer during the same 4h window (usually during a bad time zone for us).

We’ve actually had to skip destroying undefended citadels during their final timer, simply because the combination of logistics, jump fatigue and distance has prevented us from being at multiple places within those 4h.

I can’t even imagine how much it would suck to be trying to evict a huge alliance that has literally hundreds of Citadels that will all enter their final timers during the same 4h on a Wednesday at 3:30 in the morning.

Realistically, the attacker will not be able to destroy more then a few Citadels per final timer window and since the final timers are only once per week, this means that evicting an entity like Goons would take literally years. And nothing is stopping them from simply spamming even more Citadels.

In short: Citadels stack the deck too strongly in favor of the defender. Yes, the defender should get a realistic chance to rally a defense but the current mechanics basically allow large entities (and even small/mid-sized ones) to basically “time zone tank” way too well.

Personally, with Asset Safety (which I find very weak and un-EVE-like to begin with) I think Citadels should be pretty easy to destroy. I thought that was exactly the idea of Asset Safety - that a Citadel can die without totally screwing people that have all their assets there.

What we currently have is Asset Safety to prevent asset loss on the side of the defenders and Citadel mechanics that are stacked in favor of the defenders.

So in conclusion: either remove Assets Safety (or only grant it in Highsec) or make Citadels way easier to kill by giving the defenders a choice between choosing the weekday of the final timer or the time zone of the final timer, but not both.

And an even better idea (though it’s not originally my idea) is to give the owner of a Citadel a choice:

Either

  • you can have Asset Safety but you can’t choose the exact weekday + exact time zone of your final timer

or

  • You deactivate Asset Safety but can choose more exactly on what day and what time zone your final timer should be
2 Likes
70

True story. Me and 4 other dudes took one down in VNI’s. Sure it took forever but it was easy AF.

71

Right. Gathering a large force of High-DPS ships to work in tandem and meet in a specific place while most likely facing a resistance fleet, large or small, and requiring that same fleet to show up again at a later date to finish it off… and doing it over and over.

Yeah, “Start blowing them up. It isn’t that big a deal”…

Ha!

72

So…

You don’t want to play EvE?

–Curious Gadget

73

So…just like taking out a POS?

Too bad Merc corps can’t provide overwhelming numbers to help or do it for you…oh wait, they can.

Anything else?

74

There’s many POCOs I’ve wanted to take out and needed to take out and tried to take out (in wormholes), but I just didn’t have the muscle or wherewithal to do it. I accepted this as a fact of life and just moved on, I didn’t go whining on the forums and ask CCP to blow up the POCOs for me.

2 Likes
75

Too many structures at this point seems highly debatable. What really makes sense is very easy removal of abandoned / fuel depleted structures.

These were advertised and delivered as POS replacements. These structures are vast by comparison to any POS. The new vulnerability pairs well with POS mechanics. All Upwell structures were nerfed against their POS predecessors in the beginning. POS has fully automated defenses, structures do not. That alone makes destruction of any structure far easier than a POS. You don’t even have to bring Logi, just DPS to an unmanned structure. As to the long grind, again these structures are vast in size compared to POSs with the appropriate EHP. Even on that front, only 20% resist across with no way to modify like you could for a POS.

Structure bashing just got a whole lot easier with structure tackle nerf. Unless a Fleet is present, the structure can’t even hold down the measly 2-3 ships it used to in order to kill them.

It seems now the structures last line of defense is object spam to bog down the server making attacking them some level of challenge.

As to overview, we recently had more tabs added, maybe we use them?

1 Like
76

As a someone who is involved in owning/killing citadels I think current situation is fine (now with the low power mode). As for citadel spamming, it really isn’t that bad as some ppls claim. Sure there are dozens of them in Perimeter/Ashab but thats about it. It is still much better solution than POSes which are extremely boring to destroy even when offline. Milions hitpoints is especially in highsec just too much. And there is still lot of them abadoned and there is no incentive to took them down. Few ppls doing that (gj Pix Severus btw) but there is no reward for it and takes ages. So if anything we should do something with POSes first!

Imo offline POS should have also low power mode, where it will have 20% less EHP on all layers. As for reward, give POS a wreck that can be salvaged so there is at least something for cleaning up space…

However, I think that there is too much athanors or they are spawning too many rocks. There is almost no incentive to fight for a moon spot. There is so many moons! And every moon has a structure at least in highsec. Taking them out is pointless, it will be immediately replaced because thats the way it is. And if you want mine moons then you can always go mining someone’s elses. There isn’t much they can do about you and mostly they don’t care unless they are big enought to mine it all themselves. Imo, there should be moons unavailable for moon mining so there is more conflicts.

77

Also those pesky rats can do one timer for you for free!!!

78

That’s what people were talking discussing the whole moon mining system when it was initially advertised. Future moon owners were worried about others using their asteroids and killing their citadels. But i and others told that after some time there will be so many mined moons so nobody will bother moon miners. At least in high-sec. Not sure about other places.

79

no they don’t have enough dps, citadel will always heal itself

80

There have been groups recorded that have enough DPS reinforcing athanors. It’s possible for the patrols to get larger if the FOB is left alone and it gets kills, however since they massively nerfed the response fleet people are killing FoB’s too fast for this to be seen.
I think the only way you can see it now is if someone spawns a response fleet on a structure that is anchored on grid with a belt from the pirate mining fleets. And that’s enough to reinforce one.

81

Hmm ok maybe it is possible, so far i only seen the basic frigate patrol which wasn’t able to break repairing, on the contrary when i started hitting citadel they went after me and I had to deal with them first.

82

Holy Necro!

Moved to Player Features and Ideas Discussion.

1 Like
83

I’m 101% lazy and don’t want to search in the usual forum trash.

How exactly is it a problem ? by which measure ? What is an acceptable level, and what makes this level acceptable ?