Either sequence will work. The outcome is the same.
If it’s not working for you, then I guarantee that you’re simply pressing the cloak button too fast after aligning. There’s no reason to be in a rush. As long as you initiate cloak (or MWD if doing that first) within one server tick (1 second), you’re good. Press align, wait a beat (anything under 1 second), then press cloak and MWD (or vice versa). There’s no advantage to doing it faster because the game mechanics don’t allow for you to be locked and disrupted in one tick. Just slow down.
Your latency doesn’t matter as the travelceptor pilot - it only impacts the instalocker. Once you press warp, everything happens for you automatically independent of the server. No amount of latency will make a difference for you because you only communicate with the server once at the very beginning of the warp sequence. The instalocker can’t do anything until after the server receives your command, so it doesn’t matter how long it takes. The instalocker is extremely sensitive to latency though because he has to communicate with the server twice in one tick to capture a travelceptor.
You should definitely master the cloak/MWD trick, but don’t worry about using it on a travelceptor. Instalocking gate camps capable of capturing a travelceptor are few and far between. They certainly exist but I’ve yet to see one. Just get in and go. You have a greater chance of being randomly ganked in highsec than of getting caught in a travelceptor in nullsec.
It’s not a matter of being stupid (or mistaken), Keno. It’s more a matter of choosing to accept a little more risk from that part-of-a-second signature bloom from the microwarpdrive active without the cloak on in exchange for a little bit of extra speed before the active cloak speed reduction kicks in.
Both MWD-cloak and cloak-MWD methods work, and nothing says one can’t use either one depending on the circumstances - it’s not an there-can-only-be-one situation. MWD-cloak = bit more speed, cloak-MWD=safer (probably why E-uni has it).
One is never going to be 100% safe as long as there are things like boosted fast-lockers and smartbomb battleships in EvE anyway. Best we can do is do our best.
Don’t let it get to you, man. You wanna cloak first, go for it, it’s a perfectly fine technique.
You seem to be taking an unnecessarily obstinate position on this without explaining your reasoning. Either sequence gives you the same outcome. Why do you think cloak MUST happen first? As long as you cloak within one server tick after aligning, you can’t be targeted and disrupted, so there’s no harm in activating your MWD within that second.
I cloak first for consistency, but either way is equally acceptable under the game mechanics.
Zarek,
Phew! I was getting worried there for a while given the differing opinions. Ten points from me for best reply I’ve seen on the topic. I’ll keep practising.
Kevin
Apologies. It’s maybe a personal gripe of mine that this technique is so regularly taught incorrectly.
Well my reasoning is that activating the MWD first opens you up to a greater chance of not getting the cloak up in the first tick, ballooning your sig by the 2nd tick with the MWD and being unable to cloak by then because someone is already starting to target you.
Right, exactly. So why would you choose to activate the module that doesn’t protect you (MWD) first?
You’re doing it right. Not sure why you’re advocating others do it incorrectly and more dangerously if you yourself have already realised that one way is more consistently reliable at saving your life than the other?
Literally as we have discussed, the game mechanics (no cloaky after initiation of targeting) specifically suggest activating the cloak first. The only reason anyone thinks it’s the other way is because they are unaware that you can activate the MWD in the first few seconds of cloak. It is catagorically safer to do the cloak first, and has been for years. I reckon some people just fight for the “benefits” of the wrong way in order to look less ignorant, having misunderstood the technique for a long time.
I have no issue with anyone who chooses to do this the wrong way. Teaching the tactic incorrectly in New Citizens Q&A however is destructive to peoples understanding of the game. Do what you want but don’t convince new players to inherit your terrible habits.
That’s a reasonable justification and is why I personally choose to cloak first, but that’s only true if your timing is good and you don’t make any mistakes. 99% of the time that I’ve screwed up the the MWD/cloak trick has been because I activated the cloak too quickly after aligning and was still locked out (something newbros are especially prone to do under the stress of a gate camp). You then end up with your MWD on and no cloak. Plus it takes a couple of seconds to realize your cloak isn’t on. In those cases you’ll get targeted 100% of the time by any gate camp.
So cloaking first is technically optimal because it reduces the likelihood of getting caught in a fast locking gate camp with low latency (but those are rare). However, I would argue that MWD first is functionally superior for many people (especially newbros) because it’s more mistake tolerant. Statistically, I think that you’re more likely to make a mistake than to run across a fast locking gate camp with low latency. I’ve probably used the technique thousands of times and, yet, I still screwed it up recently because of a simple slip of the finger. It happens. I can’t prove it, but my suspicion is that if it were possible to do a large scale study, MWD first would result in fewer kills - despite being technically inferior. Because humans.
It’s also worth noting that some ships that struggle to reach 75% (like DSTs) benefit from the extra speed boost MWD first affords.
So I think it’s a question of technical superiority vs functional superiority (for many). I’d program a computer to cloak first, but for somebody without a sense of rhythm or having trouble on the timing, I’d be inclined to teach them MWD first. Which is to say that I don’t think it’s reasonable to insist that one way is the right way. Like virtually everything else in EVE, it depends.
It’s true either way. If your timing is bad you’re getting screwed just the same attempting to activate MWD as cloak.
If you’re quick re-hitting cloak when you see that pop-up warning you can still generally get away. The main point still stands however that the gate camp who would catch you if you mis-activate cloak would be more likely to catch you if you wasted time activating MWD first.
Dunno about technically, but you are correct in that cloaking first is optimal.
I disagree. I think that since the newbro is likely to fuzz up he should be using the most rapid way to get himself cloaked up and just bare in mind he might have to re-click the module if he gets a pop-up. I think you’re reaching pretty hard for some reason MWD first might be a good idea but it just isn’t, since the reverse works more reliably and there is 0 advantage to MWD first.
If it struggles to reach 75% speed that one extra tick on one ship isn’t worth teaching a flawed method.
I think I basically just think people should be taught the correct way and learn how to do it properly, rather than be taught incorrectly and then have to re-learn later when they discover they haven’t been taught the correct way.
Somebody with poor timing is going to be more likely to die using MWD first, because they will miss the first tick, allowing someone to begin targeting them and negate the cloak.
It’s perfectly reasonable to insist that if one way is demonstrably better and the other way requires all kinds of mental gymnastics about “people with poor timing and newbros etc” to appear like a viable option.
I think one has to be careful not to underestimate our fellow players who are new to the game. To me it would be like not telling someone they can use the system map from f11 key to approach a gate not from a direct gate-to-gate angle to avoid many bubbles because it might be not basic and/or confusing. In the balancing of sharing of EvE information I favour more over easier to digest. I think the people who are most likely to stick with EvE are the folks who don’t like things watered down. Sink or swim worked on me…and you.
I don’t really care if anyone thinks I’m ignorant or not. If I am wrong I have no problem admitting that - and have done so in these very forums on the rare (sorry) occasions I have been. I am not wrong in this case (again, ever so sorry).
No need dude I have absolutely no problem helping out, and I don’t look down on those who merely do not understand something as convoluted as this. Even the way some people say “MWD/Cloak trick” instead of “Cloak/MWD trick” must be such a curve-ball to the new guy (and many older guys). It also stands to reason someone might assume the MWD comes first, because it’s written in black and white that you cannot activate modules when cloaked.
My ire comes when people are so reluctant to admit they’re incorrect that they begin mad theory-crafting in an attempt to convince anyone who will listen that there is some magical benefit to their own mis-judgement. It’s pretty understandable why someone would initially think you cannot activate a MWD after activating cloak, but it just isn’t the case as most of us realise.
I agree completely. EvE is too complex to be teaching people warped methods in order to make life easier on them. Not to mention this particular mis-assumption actually makes it harder for everyone and improves not a single thing for anyone, newbro or otherwise.
You are wrong. Your juxtaposition hinges on the benefits of 1 tick worth of extra acceleration which is almost completely negligible in the vast majority of cases. What you get in trade for this useless benefit is the huge risk that someone will click you in that extra tick and you’ll never get your cloak up. If you never get the cloak up it makes no difference how fast your DST aligns, you’re dead.
It seems you want to make out we are each arguing in favour a different one of two equally viable methods. This is obviously not the case, anyone who understands the mechanics involved knows this not to be the case.
As I said you do you man, just please don’t spread your propaganda to new people who want to be good at the game.
It’s pretty obvious at this point you just cannot admit being wrong, even in the face of hard evidence.
Anyway stop trying to teach new players to be as awful at EvE as you are. We know you need the leg up but if you listen to your betters you may even improve without having to sabotage the young competition
If you teach newbies wrong stuff people would point it out, no matter how many pictures you paste here in a futile attempt to show how you’re totally cool.
Yes, that seems to have been my problem. I’m now able to align, cloak and activate MWD without error messages. Strangely, when I use hot keys, though I get an “Align” or “Warp” message nothing happens. Mouse selection does work.
I have been using my interceptor for the experiments which and its difficult to notice any speed difference. I’ll try a frigate with a longer time to warp next.
What operating system are you using ? the mid-slot default key-bindings do horrible things to the screen on Linux, so i just use F1 for Cloak - I find F1=Cloak on the left hand, mouse for all the others on the right hand gives me plenty of time, also keep an eye on the part of the screen where the error-message appears when you’re cloaking, and hit it again if the message shows - the second click will almost always be successful. DO NOT KEEP CLICKING IT, you’ll just end up on the Cloak recharge time-out.
Pro Tips when using Align/Cloak/MWD (which is the correct order):
use your mouse (I use the radial menu for align and warp to, very successfully)
After hitting Align, wait .5 second before hitting Cloak. If you hit Cloak too quickly, it can fail
After hitting Cloak, WAIT for the green pulse to show that the Cloak has taken
THEN hit MWD
Turn off Cloak when just over 75% ( 80 to 85%), then hit Warp To, this will warp just after the MWD shuts off. If your reflexes are faster than mine, wait until 90%.
17000 threads on the subject, a bazillion video guides, several from yours truly, and people STILL use cloak after mwd and discuss it to death about how that is the right way.
Fit both modules, try it, realise you were mistaken and adapt to a better way of doing it.
It’s astonishing the lengths people will go to in order to avoid appearing incorrect. This thread has many examples of people attempting to justify doing the trick backward
I may be missing something here, but is there a reason to not simply hit both MWD and Cloak at the same time? I’m somewhat surprised nobody seems to have mentioned this possibility which seems simpler to me, and everybody says to do it one way or the other instead…
In case of lag you really don’t want to hit 2 buttons hoping both will work. Besides, getting the initial alignment and THEN the MWD burn means you get more speed from it meaning you end up further away from your jump in point, which is great to avoid being uncloaked and to burn out of a bubble.
I have absolutely no problem helping out, and I don’t look down on those who merely do not understand something as convoluted as this. Even the way some people say “MWD/Cloak trick” instead of “Cloak/MWD trick” must be such a curve-ball to the new guy (and many older guys). It also stands to reason someone might assume the MWD comes first, because it’s written in black and white that you cannot activate modules when cloaked.
