CODE. Bowheads are useless in Hisec

[Ima_Wreckyou]

To the Code, which is a document about how PLAYERS should behave in Highsec. There is no RP there

@Dracvlad

My opinion is that CODE is in game role playing

Yes, you seam to hold many opinions which are evidently wrong to almost everyone else but you.

…ok, and Salvos

@Patti_Potato_Patrouette

GSF are not an RP alliance, but the Mittani IS Role-playing in any sense of the word

@Anjyl_Took

Is CODE in-game RP? No

Is CODE just playing the game as a game with no RP at all? No

You both get it. It seams only Salvos and Dracvlad have some serious issues with this trivial distinction. To be a roleplayer in EVE has a specific meaning and strict rules what counts as RP and what does not.

EVE is an RPG, which means we all play an immortal capsuleer, that is just what the game is. But that alone does not qualify as RP in the sense it is used when we talk about RP in EVE. If we would do so then the whole term became meaningless, since everything in EVE would be RP.

Every time someone undocks in a mining barge to mine pixel roids would be RP because he/she is obviously RPing a space miner. Every time someone sells something on the pixel market would be RP because he/she is RPing a space trader. Every time an ag raises his fist to curse the rising sun because it announces a new day of complete failure would be RP because he/she is RPing a typical ag. Everything in-game would be some form of RP. This is nonsensical and it is pretty clear to everyone with a sound mind.

[Dracvlad]

@Ima_Wreckyou

Every time someone undocks in a mining barge to mine pixel roids would be RP because he/she is obviously RPing a space miner. Every time someone sells something on the pixel market would be RP because he/she is RPing a space trader

But we are not talking about that, we are talking about James315 declaring himself the savior of hisec and demanding a payment of 10m per year to operate in his declared territory, that is role playing.

[Patti_Potato_Patrouette]

Oh I don’t think everything in eve would be RP,
When Lord Maldoror speaks in character in the video ‘message in a bottle’ he role-plays
but when he speaks ooc he does not.

My point is that the CODE agents I have encountered in game and out of game tend to speak and act IC, as role-players do when they role-play in the eve sense- though I am sure all of their in game interactions are not RP as such

Whereas some gal mil guy who convoes a fleet mate after a fight and goes, gf we had I thought I had him but the cat jumped on my lap, btw did you see that prick Patti sperging nonsense on the forums yesterday, that would be OOC. Most play the game this way, CODE at least in their public interactions in game, seem not to.

I think the mark of a roleplayer- is that they make that distinction- others just play and speak as if’ the character is an extension of themselves so to speak.

It is the specific rules around what constitutes a ‘real’ roleplayer in eve that I think need challenging, and I think the CODE does that, whether intentionally or not, by its existence.

This is as much the real lore of eve as the stuff the devs wrote, this is it’s becoming.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

@Dracvlad

But we are not talking about that, we are talking about James315 declaring himself the savior of hisec and demanding a payment of 10m per year to operate in his declared territory, that is role playing.

It is in the same way RP as it is for a nullsec alliance to demand rent from their renters. It is silly to call this things RP because RP has a distinct meaning in EVE.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

Ok, simple example:

This space is under the control of James 315 and the New Order of Highsec. Get a permit or get rekt.

Normal player aliance projecting power and controling their territory, normal EVE gameplay. No RP.

But this is Minmatar space! Freeeedom!

RP

[Dracvlad]

@Ima_Wreckyou

Ok, simple example:

This space is under the control of James 315 and the New Order of Highsec. Get a permit or get rekt.

Normal player aliance projecting power and controling their territory, normal EVE gameplay. No RP.

Except that you call him the savior of hisec…

[Patti_Potato_Patrouette]

Yes

Thanks for simple, simple helped x

Still think it’s RP but not EVE Pp, I get your distinction now.

I think when a normal alliance and power projects force through rhetoric which implies their characters and alliances have actual real power, as in gsf and randk examples above, and do so in character- this is still RP in the normal -not so broad it makes all gameplay rp sense- in the sense someone might say , I LARP at the weekend, or I roleplay a wizard in d and d, but not in the Very Specific ‘core eve lore’ must be respected way.

The difference of course is that for the Eve ‘normal gameplay’ RPer, as opposed to Eve RPer in the strict sense, they must have ‘in game power’, or they risk looking foolish, but that does not mean that rhetorical projections of power that transcend their actual real power projection and the actual possible use of force possible in game, done in character , is not RP.

My wizard might say ‘I am the mightiest wizard in all of Madeupnamecity, and will smite all comers with my staff of awesome’ and ALSO be the mightiest wizard in the game, and actually ‘win the game’, but at no point am I not roleplaying a wizard if I stay in character.

In the same game, if the players make the same dice rolls and decisions but discuss their characters in the third person, perhaps discuss the game as a game amongst themselves - what is based strategy for this mechanic etc- then they are not role playing.

The same players may do both in one game.

It is just in EVE the players can have IN GAME POWER, as it is competitive, so we can distinguish between someone ‘pretending to be an elite hunter of slavers and pirates’ and someone who ‘pretends to be an elite hunter of slavers and space pirates’ without hunting space pirates or slavers actually.

But Role-Play is playing a role, another character in a game from your own in real life.

I think I understand why you MUST proclaim the distinction in this context, because the CODE do project force and control space- so in the sense I think you mean they are not an RP organisation-
The RP just expresses or is a means to facilitate and further in game goals-
but it is also an expression of intent, backed up by force

CODE are not saying ‘calm down miner, get a permit’ they are saying ‘calm down miner, get a permit’ and making sure there are consequences if the miner does not have a permit.

TLDR: I mostly agree with you I think?

[Ima_Wreckyou]

yes, because he safes Highsec from bot-aspirancy. You think the New Order was a reaction to the can flipping nerf, it was not. It is a reaction to systems full of belts with max-yield anti-tanked Hulks and players which are not quite bots yet, but they try to max their AFK time as much as possible. They try to be as close to a bot as you can get within the EULA, they asipre to be bots.

This is not an RP lore problem, this is a game mechanics problem. But since we are gamers we try to solve the problem with in-game tools. A lesser non-gamer would probably cry on the forums to change the game.

Klar soweit?

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Sasha_Nemtsov

No RP there,

All of it is RP.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Ima_Wreckyou

But this is Minmatar space! Freeeedom!

RP

Someone RPing as a Minmatar freedom fighter, is no less RPing than a CODE Agent.

[Sasha_Nemtsov]

@Dracvlad

Being the type of players that they were they hated role players and the like, so the GM made them role play to be able to do this, it is an utterly fantastic troll by that GM and every time I see them talk about the savior of hisec and refer to the CODE I laugh inside a lot.

A very entertaining take on our origins, Dracvlad, but I’ll have to get you to stifle your giggles somewhat.

Officially, then. James’ bumping of miners in the ice belts drew such a volume of complaints from them that, in order to calm them down, he was required by the GMs to link the activity to some kind of business activity, or desist.

That is the reason the New Halaima Code of Conduct proper begins ‘Although profit is a primary motive of my new business…’ It was that, or no New Order!

James still has the mail exchange between himself and the particular GM (never discards anything, James), but it can’t be published, of course.

Do continue laughing Dracvlad; it’s good medicine, for the cause is somewhat less important than the effect…!

[Sasha_Nemtsov]

@Salvos_Rhoska

@Sasha_Nemtsov

No RP there,

All of it is RP.

You scurrilous meddler, Salvos!

[Salvos_Rhoska]

I dont mind the RP.
Honestly, its ingenious.

But I do mind claiming its not RP.
That is just flat out wrong.

[Sasha_Nemtsov]

@Dracvlad

And the only ones doing that are them with this savior of hisec stuff.

I do mention James by his title, yes, and on the forums too! It’s a fair cop.

But (and I’ve never done this myself) if you look at my posting history, I’m sure you’ll find relatively few out-and-out role-playing posts. On the forums, and in-game in fact, I eschew most of it. Here’s how, in-game.

I gank the retriever.
I send an EVEMail (rp)
I get the hell out.

No time for mucking about, me.

We all use generalisations from time to time; they’re convenient, and mostly it doesn’t matter. But when you’re trying to make a point, it helps to insert the words ‘some’ or ‘all’, just for clarification, but it’s up to you of course. A niggle more than anything…

[Sasha_Nemtsov]

@Salvos_Rhoska

I dont mind the RP.
Honestly, its ingenious.

But I do mind claiming its not RP.
That is just flat out wrong.

The odd thing is, I don’t mind going full-blown Role-Player when I voice James’ texts. If you’ve heard any of them you’ll know what I mean. That imperious voice most certainly doesn’t reflect my normal ‘London/Essex’ accent. As I said, odd.

[Patti_Potato_Patrouette]

Perhaps, but the CODE agent is also obliged to ‘do things in game’ and fulfil objectives in game, ‘protect their space’ or at least dominate it enough that they can say they are the saviours of high sec, to give their actions meaning, they must enforce or attempt to enforce the CODE, or they are not agents.

Whereas the minmatar freedom fighter must write a narrative based on lore provided by the devs, and can legitimately RP this role without freeing any slaves or killing any slavers, though this does not mean he cannot fight in the militia, nor does it preclude him from fitting stabs in the millitia, he can still RP legitimately, and the fac’ war willnever end no matter what he does, unless the devs kill it.

However, I cannot see why the fact the CODE was created to protect high-sec from bot-aspirancy, as a reaction to belts full of ships fit to max afk time and none engagement with their task in game, cannot be understood in character in game in that context as RP;
why it is not a valid part of eve lore, even though it is also a response to game mechanics;
why it cannot be BOTH;
why it may not be taken both literally and ironically as realistic response to the fictitious over-mining of ore by lazy pilots who would rather watch porntube (you KNOW porntube is in space) and water their plants than concentrate on their space ships- in an imaginary universe, with an economy like New Edens- by a character seeking to save high sec: James315.
While at the same time be a response from some gamers as a result of mechanics in a game.

Because to RP the saviour of High Sec in Eve, does not ALONE entitle him to make that claim, it means he can pretend, or play with style and a certain jouissance while actualy fulfilling his objectives in the game)

TLDR: For me, this is one of the reasons this game is unique and valuable as an emergent society, and interesting I its own right, without undocking even. But that may be a lone viewpoint, I do not know.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

RP all you want.

But dont pretend CODE isnt an RP organisation.

[Sasha_Nemtsov]

@Salvos_Rhoska

RP all you want.

But dont pretend CODE isnt an RP organisation.

Pretending is tantamount to role-playing. Anathema. You meant ‘claim’?

Your point, though forcefully made, does not persuade…

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Sasha_Nemtsov

Your point, though forcefully made, does not persuade…

Doesnt really matter if you are persuaded or not.

Regardless of your own view, everyone else in EVE considers CODE an RP organisation.
And there is nothing you can do about it.

[Sasha_Nemtsov]

@Salvos_Rhoska

everyone else in EVE considers CODE an RP organisation.

Everyone, Salvos? That’s a mighty big claim, on the basis of what? a gut feeling?

And there is nothing you can do about it. So there!

(my italics to indicate the impoverished nature of the response. I can without the least difficulty hear in my mind a maniacal cackle rising in a shrieking crescendo to a bloodthirsty howl as the white-coated boffin raises his clenched fist and shakes it triumphantly in the general direction of ‘God’.