Solution to the Empire ganking trend


(R Rage) #1

I’ve read a fair few posts now regarding the empire ganking. To which I agree does seem to be slightly out of hand now.

Empire ganking isnt restricted to certain system sec status anymore, it isnt restricted to certain ships either.
Value/profit and killboard padding is the gain.
It does not matter what you try to avoid the gank, it will happen eventually.

What caused this to explode to what it is now was the clever individual that introduced Criminal Dog tags being cashed in to fix sec status.
Remove this option. Go back to the old school way of fixing sec status (Ratting) and you’ll see a big change.

I’d love to see (Insesrt first name) Kusion ratting his 20 odd accounts to fix sec status.
The amount of isk being made from ganking cover’s ship loss, criminal tags purchase and profit.

There is no Risk vs Reward in Empire ganking anymore. It is all reward for the ganker.

Those of us that invest our time and isk into freighter’s, Jump freighters, haulers of all shapes and sizes do not only invest in the transportation. We invest in blue prints, materials, citadels, time. To watch all this be blown away in a matter of seconds with 0 risk to the attacker is disheartening.

I have both an Empire account and a Pirate account and I’d be happy to have my negative status account stopped from entering Empire completely. Piracy was my choice just like many others.

If CODE, Goons, or any of the other entities wish to kill stuff In Empire then for the isk they are making through the gank, then perhaps you can afford a war dec aswell and do it they way everyone else has too?
I’m not asking to make Empire 100% safe, but the war dec mechanic is there for a reason. Ganking is just avoiding that.

Either make ganking harder to maintain as a career path in terms of fixing sec status as to give some balance to Risk vs reward, or remove the ability of ganking and force the war dec mechanic to be used.

Note: I own a freighter, yes I’ve lost one to my own stupidity, yes I can replace. But for all the new guys that join and leave Eve due to what seem’s to be a part of the game that isnt balanced, there are some easy fixes.

And for those that wonder why ship’s and stuff have increased in value over the last few years the ganking culture is what is casuing it. They will only get more expensive with the introduction of belt mining moon ore aswell. Not as big of a supply of materials anymore. Supply and Demand 101 =)
I’m sure those of us that trade in materials for building have noticed the cost’s going up

Edit:

Perhaps a severe increase into the sec status penalty for ganking in Empire could be a result too?
I personally didnt have a problem with having to rat my sec status back up when I first turned pirate. Cause and effect.


CCP killed highsec PvP
(Marcus Luttrell Khan) #2

Perhaps you should also invest in a cyno toon


(R Rage) #3

At which point is a Cyno toon an issue in this topic? I fail to see where a Cyno toon has any affect in Empire? Or how it could save freighters and your everyday hauler?

Aside from possibly saving a Jump freighter I do not see what your reply is trying to achieve?


(Vokan Narkar) #4

“Dog tags” are not a problem. They are expensive and if someone wants to gank all his time he has for eve he should be able to do that for fair price.

But you are missing the real problem here. Nobody needs to fix their security status. It is perfectly fine to gank as -10 and if you check, all the CODE toons that are involved in ganking freighters have -10 (except the scan/bump/loot alts ofc). The consequences of becoming an outlaw are perfectly acceptable to anyone who:

  • lives in lowsec/nullsec
  • has no desire to rat/mine/pvp in highsec
  • has alt(s) to do what he needs to do in highsec

(Mark O'Helm) #5

Your proposal, like many others before would of course lead to a change in the gameplay of many players. But it would also lead to the end to many ganker accounts. And this is money, that CCP cannot affort to loose.
So any change against suicide ganking in highsec will possibly never come, or will be a minor inconvinience for code or goons.


(QuakeGod) #6

It wouldn’t matter if this was implemented or not, the forum would still be full of hundreds of threads consisting of “We have to get rid of bumping!”. Carebears won’t be happy until no one can be ganked or bumped in high sec. At which point EVE in high sec turns into a single player PVE game rampant with bots, not that it isn’t already…


(Mortlake) #7

This never fails to crack me up, and to be honest I’m slowly running out of analogies.

If you walked around in the desert barefoot and got stung by a tiny scorpion, would you lie there and complain incessantly until your last breath about the fact that the scorpion is so much smaller and weaker than you and that this really shouldn’t be happening? Would you complain that in a ‘fair’ world the scorpion would be bigger, painted neon pink and possess venom that would simply slow you down, just temporarily disable you or would have at least offered you a chance to escape or given a warning? Would you concern yourself about why the scorpion didn’t offer you a o/ and a ‘gf’ afterwards? Would you lament over the fact that the scorpion gets nothing from your death, not even a meal, and that it’s such a terrible waste?

No.

You’d lie there asking yourself why you didn’t put a pair of ■■■■■■■ boots on.


(Solonius Rex) #8

They are -10.0 status all the time. What are you talking about?

If youre investing time and isk into your ships, why not invest time and isk into protecting these ships?

Why should laziness be rewarded with nerfs?

We have already catered to your selfish propositions. Freighters received buffs after buffs, gankers received nerfs after nerfs.

Youre not fooling anyone. Players who fly freighters are in no way “new”.

There used to be a time when we would laugh at the idiot who bought a character with his daddies credit card, bought a titan, and tried to dock the titan and got promptly destroyed.

More avenues of mining ore = decrease in ore prices because there are more methods of obtaining it. its not like they are removing ore belts.
Supply and demand 101.


(Arthur Aihaken) #9

As if most gankers actually pay for their subscriptions… There’s so much ISK flowing from null that I’d be surprised if any of these players have spent a real dime in years…


(Faylee Freir) #10

This post comes conveniently after a handful of JFs carrying lots of valuable cargo get ganked in Jita. Sounds like it is. It CCPs responsibility to balance ganking, but to balance how big of a target you make yourself. Ganking is only as sustainable as the loot the gankers are able to scoop. I guess there could be an exception if someone is injecting ISK into the Hanks from an outside and unrelated source, but even then… not very likely or sustainable considering how much isk some of these ganks take as an “investment”.

Ganking has NEVER been restricted to the sec status of a system, sorry. Ganking has also never been restricted to certain ships either. It’s all about min-maxing… again, sorry. There are plenty of ways to avoid being ganked, sorry!

The gankers you’re complaining about are staying at or below -2.5, so this whole thing coming from allowing you to “tag back up” is irrelevant.

Covered in my previous statement. Kusion ganks with -10 characters. So you wanting to force him to PVE is both irrelevant and cruel. ~PVE! GROSS!

You do realize that loot dropping and even scooping the loot isn’t guaranteed, right? Loot drops are RNG - sometimes the lootfairy is nice, while othertimes she’s a fickle b****. Then you have to scoop it! You do realize that there are loot thieving vultures afoot trying to earn a penny off your hard earned work?

So no ganking is not a risk free always profiting venture. Wrong!

Wars are an interesting topic. I say interesting because wars desperately need a rework right now. Declaring war on an entity hoping you can catch their freighter or jump freighter is a shot in the dark that is easy mitigated by just dropping to an NPC corp… which is what happens most of the time.

——

I will close with a few words and a few tips that maybe you can take to heart. Are you ready?

  • Stop crying to CCP to fix a problem that is only a problem because of greed and/or laziness on the targets part. This is a tougher MMO and requires you to be responsible for your own action / inaction.

  • Ganks are preventable. Being a responsible and sensibly paranoid player is just one aspect of this. Gank prevention starts while docked in a station or a citadel. Think of it like this if trying to figure out how to be a responsible and sensibly paranoid player is too difficult for you: You walk down the street with $500 in your wallet. The wallet is visibly sticking up past the top of your back pocket and you can clearly count the bills. You are walking down a street where you know there will likely be some unsavory characters… Do you continue on or do you put the wallet in your front pocket? Do you turn around and maybe stop by the bank to deposit all but $20?

And lastly I would like to tell you that you can just HTFU!


(Jameson2011) #11

There’s a lot wrong with your post. Allow me to correct some of the errors.

Then don’t enter highsec with your toons. It’s quite simple: taking gates, or not taking gates, is entirely your choice. Whether you wish to push your choices onto others is a different matter, and smacks of entitlement.

Everyone else can gank too, and they do. Perhaps you need to invest more time in ganking statistics before making propositions?

It’s already safe enough, as informed people agree.

And who allows ganking? The same people who gave war dec mechanics. Here’s a lesson: highsec war decs are easily avoided. Ganking helps the economy, helps Eve, helps you.

If you eliminate ganking, you make highsec safe. You’ve just contradicted yourself.

Perhaps a nerf to freighters would help make these lazy freighter pilots understand that the game isn’t supposed to be safe and never has? Because if they can’t read zkillboard, and they can’t understand the in-game maps, then they really are too … casual … for their own good.


(Faylee Freir) #12

Lots of harsh reality here. Let’s see how the OP responds. I anxiously await.


(R Rage) #13

Some good counter arguments here.

Aside from recruiting people to “escort” a freighter to which would want paying as nobody does anything for free, there isnt much people can do to protect X ship in this instance. The smaller ships obviously have their tech II counter parts, usually being either the blockade runner which can cloak or the deep space transport, both of which can be fit with an active/passive tank but are more mobile than freighters.

And I use term new players very loosely. I’ve been playing for 15 years now. skilling for at best a freighter now is pretty quick in terms of time.

As for the -10 status, thats the issue. I do not think I explained it very well now I have read it again. The sec status means nothing. Using an alt to draw Facpol/Conc away prior to tank gives the ganker ample time to undock and commit the crime. Sec status has no effect here.

Everyone’s issue is its no risk, plenty reward. My risk is getting to Jita or X trade hub. The ganker’s risk is what? loosing perhaps 10-15 cheap ships they can easily replace while still making good return on the crime.

By all means, dont remove ganking full stop. More effort/risk needs implementing to make it balanced.

I think the avenue of making security status actually mean something needs to be visited.
If your not allowed into empire once your sec status drop’s below X, then thats what it means and should be.
Forget Concord or Facpol trying to enforce this, the stargate should disallow entry.

Remove the ability to fix security status with criminal tags, go back to the old way of ratting to fix this.
And if you or me or someone else wants to gank in Empire, then some effort has to be made to make this possible.

Everyone works hard to achieve their goals, why should ganking be the exception?


(Faylee Freir) #14

So there’s a funny little bit of irony you’ve created here. A player can either choose to gank with a group of people, or if he’s capable he can try to multibox and do it on his own. The first part makes sense because Eve Online is an MMO. Players do things together for many different reasons. Players also choose to go about things solo or with fewer players for many different reasons and in that case they supplement the lack of actual humans with additional accounts.

So just like these gankers are grouping up or arming themselves with enough alts to get the job done… don’t you think you ought to as well? Do you not think that the person helping you reach Jita 4-4 safely deserves compensation for your time just as the individuals helping in the gank fleet should get a split? How do you call for an easy gameplay experience while hauling excess value on your cargo, while making the whole ganking situation more likely and more profitable? You catching on here?

Who is this “everyone” you’re referring to? Is it the echo chamber of uninformed or selfish players that have no idea what ganking involves and the mechanics behind it? Is it the players that don’t understand the difference between faction police and concord?

I have explained the risk previously, but you’re more than welcome to continue ignoring it all while seeming ignorant. Do you even play this game or at best read when people that know what they are talking about try to help you understand?

This is gold here now! How would you know how easy or hard it is? Have you ever lead a gank Fleet? Please show us some killmail to prove your experience in the matter where you can sit back and declare it too easy and risk less.


(Jameson2011) #15

It is very relevant to this topic because cyno alts help you get out of highsec very quickly. They are cheap and simple to set up. A cursory glance at Jita’s butcher’s bill will show how many JFs die there. As lowsec is within jump range, it’s plainly in JF pilots’ interests to invest in a cyno alt.

I can teach you but please be advised it’ll cost you ISK.


(Scipio Artelius) #16

So much wrong in that OP.

Go validate what you write before writing it. That’ll make your posts much shorter.


(R Rage) #17

Fay, I’ll happily continue this conversation ingame sometime with you. I have been entrigued with your replies, but having read some of the further comments I can see people are just interested in trolling.

I might point out to those few, that just because I have not put my views on this topic to text the way you would have, does not mean I am wrong/right, retarded or any such.


(R Rage) #18

How do you cyno out a badger? Or an Orca for that matter. Topic doesnt just cover Jump Freighters, it was intended to cover ganking as a whole. Sorry if I did not make that clear in my OP.


(Jameson2011) #19

It remains the case that the onus remains with the hauler pilot to carefully plan his route to and from Jita, to use the many free tools at his disposal, and to ensure his ship’s and cargo’s safety. If you need 3rd party help, I can provide for a modest fee.


(R Rage) #20

Thanks Jameson for the offer, but I think I’ve covered myself as much as I can.