Congratulations to CSM 13

(Arthur Aihaken) #21

The new GSM gets to turn out the lights on EVE.

(Brisc Rubal) #22

Goons built that themselves - it wasn’t handed to them by CCP. That’s my point.

(Dyver Phycad) #23

They did after prerequisites were introduced for these things, which were all things CSM pressed for in previous years. CCP specifically introduced structures and the focus on capitals which only benefits the biggest groups. And this trend is going to continue with this CSM.

(Brisc Rubal) #24

Goons are the only folks with citadels? The only folks with a huge supercapital fleet?

Delve has long been the “fortress” region in the game. That’s why BOB was there, that’s why Goons were there the first time, that’s why it was invaded and they were kicked out, etc. Delve is a natural fortress, and it’s been that way longer than there’s been a CSM.

Groups playing the existing mechanics and adapting to the new ones is how the game is played. The conspiracy theories are just not borne out by the evidence. Plenty of groups besides the Goons have flourished under these changes.

(Dyver Phycad) #25

Delve has never been this fortified with secure supercapital and titan staging on all entries. No other group has this kind of capital force. Other groups have not benefited from the changes like CFC, and the way they benefited is basically the same pattern: focus on capitals. And this focus causes nothing but issues and absolutely unenjoyable gameplay.

(Brisc Rubal) #26

PL doesn’t have a supercapital fleet? NC. doesn’t have a supercapital fleet? Test? CO2? GOTG?

Come on, now. Even Brave and Horde have a supercapital fleet.

There’s a difference between someone taking advantage of the game mechanics and somebody specifically creating the game mechanics to benefit them.

(MinerArt) #27

Chicago voting. Early and Often.

(Dyver Phycad) #28

Yeah, great. Not only is their fleet now smaller than what CFC has amassed, it also means that ultimately we have to deal with more B-R and 9-4 idiocy that is not fun and meaningful at all. It is nothing but an annoying waste of time that is being forced onto the userbase by the CSM and CCP. And for what? That CCP Falcon can run around the media and say EVE had 6k chars in a system (and even lies about that by calling it 6k people). That’s what the CSM forces onto EVE for no good reason and intention at all.

(Brisc Rubal) #29

I don’t know about you, but I think there are a ton of players who started playing this game after they read about B-R and these other massive fleet battles in the mainstream gaming community. Those types of big fleet battles are considered end game content by a lot of people, including me.

Having been a part of those battles that people know just by the system name is one of the cool things about EVE and it helps recruit new players and retain others.

As for fleets being smaller - I’ve seen TEST’s supercap umbrella deter PL. I’ve seen NC.'s super cap fleet deter us, and others. I’ve seen multiple situations where these fleets were deployed after escalations effectively and sometimes not effectively.

Yes, the Goons are richer now than they were before - but so is everybody else. That’s the nature of the game.

If folks are truly concerned about the Goons power down in Delve, then they need to do something about it, and that will have nothing to do with the CSM. Every “invincible” power bloc in EVE has fallen apart - it’s even happened to the Goons before. Nobody thought Evolution could be beaten, nobody thought ASCN could be beaten, BOB, etc. Things change - that’s part of the fun.

I do think it’s ironic that you have one group of players who hate the CSM because they think it’s useless and can’t accomplish anything and now another group of players who hate the CSM because they think the members are going to skew the game mechanics for their own side. Those two competing complaints aren’t really reconcilable.

(Drago Shouna) #30

Does anyone have a link to who got on?

(Dyver Phycad) #31

Yes, there was. Brave was created after that or Asakai, I don’t remember. And then they learned about the realities in EVE and most of them left again because EVE in reality is not even close to what “mainstream media” makes it look like. Deceptive marketing from CCP has never resulted in sustained growth of the user base. In contrast, it results in bad press and word of mouth afterwards when lured in people discover the realities.

That’s the thing. Doing something about it is worse than virtual cancer. Fighting repeated battles like 9-4 where nothing is really happening but the lag, tidi and unresponsiveness of the client drives you nuts is not something to look for. But it has to be done in order to either keep your “home” or an important asset or to attack someone’s area of influence. This is the worst and it has never been as bad. And the reason why it became so bad is the influence of the CSM on CCP.

(Imustbecomfused) #32 I think sums it up

Its nice to see Sort Dragon up there again. He was pretty interesting when I talked with him on one occasion. seemed to be a good chap. :slight_smile: Congrats everyone else too.

(Drago Shouna) #33

I’ll have to take your word on that one.

Personally I have no time whatsoever for anyone putting themselves forward then never interacting with the player base on these forums.

Thanks for the link.

(Circumstantial Evidence) #34

That’s a technical problem that CCP tried to mitigate with Aegis Sov, with its multiple capture nodes spreading players out and encouraging smaller ships (so small, that interceptors had to be prevented from using entosis links.) This change was protested at the time as a nerf to Supers, some players sold their big toys, because they were no longer perceived as useful. Grinding sov-null outposts in 5 minutes was no longer possible.

Separately, I never thought Goons would be kicked out of Deklein. It took a series of events to motivate the player-base enough to band together and oppose them. Casino isk is no longer there, but, rich players still exist that aren’t in Goons. The same could happen again, thanks to the MER both advertising Delve as the best place to mine (Join GSF!) and this fact irritating everyone who can’t “freely” mine or rat like they do. The situation just needs a good catalyst to once more motivate the rest of EVE to band together and outblob them. Or an internal failure of some kind.

(Marid A) #35

wormhole connections being nerfed because of PL getting good at them is sometimes cited as having been done because of a CSM member crying to ccp

(Brisc Rubal) #36

They said they same thing about Delve when Goons and Red Alliance had to kill 200 POSes per system to clear it out. It’s always been hard to forcibly evict people.

Nobody is invincible in EVE. This has been true for 15 years and it will be true until they shut the server down.

These big fights are end game content for many of us. Even in the TIDI, these fights can be fun - but we’ve got to do some stuff to fix it, and I’m hoping to work on that this year.

(Arthur Aihaken) #37

Get rid of asset safety for Citadels of all types and you’ll see engaging content again.

(Dyver Phycad) #38

Utterly unenjoyable endgame content if you listen to al sorts of comms and the comments afterwards. Yes, CCP has to work on it, but considering how they fixed other things I am not really looking forward to those efforts.

@Arthur_Aihaken I disagree. Removed Asset Safety would only drive more people into the biggest groups, CONDI in particular, because only they can warrant a certain degree of stability and defensibility against outside attacks (just look at the number of corps from CO2 who joined CFC or TEST after the heist). In contrast, such huge groups can just steamroll smaller groups. Asset Safety makes this behavior a little bit less attractive and therefore delays or prevents even more consolidation.

(mimi45) #39

and that is a problem in attracting new players. As a result of that attitude server shutdown will come very soon :slightly_frowning_face:

(Brisc Rubal) #40

I don’t understand your point.