Content Generator


(Old Pervert) #1

So I’ll preface this by saying the krabs will be livid if this ever happens.

What if every system in Eve had a static WH in it to same-security space?

For example, a null system would have a permanent null static in it. You could roll it as often as you wanted, but it’d always be somewhere. Same with low -> low. Possibly not high, but really, why not?

Hole size would vary unlike current statics. Or just be stuck with substantial mass and jump limits.

It could bring battleship roams back, becuase there wouldn’t be kill-yourself-slow travel to suffer through.

Edit:
Assuming the krabs were too vocal, one could always just make it one static per constellation. That should allow more than enough roaming potential.


(Nevyn Auscent) #2

Null/Null WH’s were specifically reduced to make them not super duper easy logistics. This seems like it would go against that. Ditto High/High logistics suddenly becoming pretty easy between trade hubs for groups.
I don’t know of any significant low/low logistics but again.


(Old Pervert) #3

Null/Null WHs wouldn’t really make it any easier on logistics… maybe if you were REALLY far out, but generally the amount of time you’d spend rolling holes it would make more sense to just use JF lol.


(Kyon Rheyne) #4

It’s much easier if you are part of a group. Then you may have somebody who heard about, or scanned himself such hole, and then he’ll just share it with the rest. Or you could find some explorers group/channel, and advertise rewards there for anybody who’ll be feeding you such holes on regular basis.


(Old Pervert) #5

CCP generally enjoys the idea of people working together in their MMO… I would say given the details, that would be excellent. In any case, as mentioned if there are too many holes, one static per constellation should be a massive improvement as well. I do agree that would simplify logistics, but given the massive increase in tope costs, running a hauler through a wormhole makes more sense than ever.


(Raybra Brahms) #6

What the words “content generator” really means is let’s give the pew, pew crowd that already has a sickening advantage in exchanges between pve players and pvp players and even more sickening advantage because even the practically zero effort required now is apparently too much effort.


(Old Pervert) #7

Effort is not synonymous with time. “Wandering around looking for a fight” is not the fun part of PVP. “Getting a fight” is the fun part of PVP. Being able to rapidly travel to unpredictable locations across the universe would pretty much guarantee you’d be able to find content in minutes without burning 40 jumps.

Also, why would I care if a carebear is going to cry that his ratting space is less safe? It’s nullsec. It’s not supposed to be safe at all.


(Kyon Rheyne) #8

Wandering around, re-assembling and relocating your ship back to the region of your choice after each kill is not the fun part of PvE. Actually shooting mobs is the fun part of PvE.

The fact you can’t find much fights (let’s not touch the fact you are searching for an easy gank target, and not a fight, for now) is exactly this: too much people interested in PvE get tired of this crap and try to minimize the boring part down (as if PvE itself wasn’t boring already enough) - they just stick to highsecs and do PvE there. The day you’ll manage to achieve your goal won’t be the day of your victory over the “krabs”, but rather the day when you’ll lose even those few targets which you still can find in lows/nulls, that won’t bring much “content”, “krabs” avoid PvP for a reason, they have little chance to survive gank even if they’ll start ratting fitted for PvP. If you are attacked, that’s usually because attackers have enough manpower to bring you down, unless you have some backup waiting for a cyno. Thus you have only one realistic scenario - to run. Thus no PvP fits will help you much, they’ll just make you worse at ratting. Little can be done to turn this gank into a fight, and thus there won’t ever be much of “krabs” who wish to have a “fight” with you. If you’ll start pushing them too much, they will either leave to a more safer places, or will drop from the game, if there won’t be one.

As many others, you try to fight consequences instead of the cause. The cause of you not finding your easy targets is that there are very few people doing PvE in the first place. Which is partly because PvE in Eve is horrible crap, and partly because gankers are already extremely effective in disrupting “krabs” play. You’ll make them even more effective - you’ll see even fewer “krabs” beyond hs.


(Old Pervert) #9

Wouldn’t it be interesting then if you found yourself a quiet pocket of space and started ratting there, well on the other side of the universe from where that blops fleet was just reported in intel channels?

And yet touch it you did; my reply to that is “says who?”. I will take any fight I think I can win, as will any of our other FCs roaming for content. If the carebears would actually form up and fight, we’d take that fight too unless we were hard-countered or dramatically outnumbered. We’ll gank a PVE ship if we catch it, sure. But we aren’t looking for them, we’re just going to kill them along the way.

Are you honestly positing that nullsec will be empty if it becomes riddled with wormholes? Really? Or just the krabs leaving… because if the krabs want to leave, good. They can go back to highsec and do their thing there, which is the space that was made for them. As I said above, I’m not out to find krabs, I’m out to find a fight that is reasonable.

And yet again you base your argument on the faulty assumption that I just want to gank people. Yes I can fly blops, yes I’ve killed ratters. But that’s not exactly fun and I don’t pretend it is. The fun I seek is the ability to roll into a system and “actually fight” a group.

Rather than focus your argument on the assumption of my intent, look at it from the perspective of what would happen if null were full of ships ready to fight?


(Kyon Rheyne) #10

In the other side of universe, on the foreign soil, with no security channels, and whatever folks that will be waiting you there, possibly with blops fleet of their own? Would be much easier to just dock/log off and wait for blops fleet to go away.

And yet you are bringing the “krabs” subject in your very first post of this topic.

…they wouldn’t be carebears. And people prefer to be ones for reasons as well, as out of 2 evils (a crappy pvp system where you’ll always lose without even much chances to fight back to those who have more ppl for a bigger blob, and more time and money wasted on practicing it, with little incentive to fight in the first place VS a crappy boring pve system which at least may guarantee you some predictable marginal fun of blowing up things without losing your ship in the process (otherwise you are doomed to another hour or two of boring Eve’s shopping and traveling experience)) they choose the lesser one. This situation won’t change if you’ll put more pressure on them, they won’t acquire more time and desire to invest it in some game to become a l33t pvper here, they clearly have no such ambitions -
thus your initial premise of your change being an attempt to “create content” is far from truth.

Yes, you want to “take any fights you can win”. Surprisingly, others want this as well (even “krabs”, that’s why they choose pve over pvp) - that’s why you have little fights in the end. As everybody is too busy waiting for their ideal fight they can win, and Eve by its natures rarely is able to ensure such fights. If you would like to just have any fight, go wander solo, hanging around gates and stations, and you’ll soon find it. But you won’t like how it will feel, obviously. Then how exactly your proposal solves this problem (which hardly is solvable, even session MMOs employing some kind of balancers to assemble equal teams for each session can’t solve it completely, and unlike those, in Eve your loose has much more significant consequences - it’s a lot of subsequent painfully boring procedures you must endure to restore from your loss, like buying and assembling your ship, moving it all the way back, ratting even more to not go bankrupt etc). This is not helping to convince a lot of people to even try.

And, again, they don’t actually really feel like the must to fight in the first place. Here on one side you have that perspective of long recovering from a loss of a costy ship, and on the other side you have some guy who tries to provoke you into a fight - why on Earth you even have to risk the former doing the latter? Can you give me a couple of solid reasons? That’s one of my own issues with PvP in Eve, and I believe others do feel the same (thus your problem of finding a fight). The only real reason to have a fight with somebody beyond the usual turf disputes in nulls (which are rather pointless imo as well in its current state) is when somebody just have a mood and extra funds/time to waste on this completely meaningless activity. You can’t even sure it will be fun, as what seems like a “fair, interesting fight” may turn into gank instantly.


(Old Pervert) #11

Context is king. And you’ve managed to completely ignore it. My OP statement about them was that they would not like this - and this has been consistent (even agreed upon, dare I say).

As I said just previous, if the Krabs want to leave and go back to highsec, good riddance. I don’t need them in null to have fun. There’s more than enough people who can handle “space that isn’t safe” to populate null. So my assertion about creating content stays true, in the context that the space freed up from renters would be filled by more aggressive players.

Again, I said any reasonable fight. I’ve been in some absolutely amazingly fun fights where we were outmatched; one in particular will remain in my memory, outnumbered 3 to 1 and we still got them (logi ftw…). We took the fight because we stood a good chance. It wasn’t a fair fight, but we still won and that was easily one of my favourite fights

Sadly, I cannot name a reason. I could name some potential solutions, but, that would be contentious at best. Just the same, my ideal is finding fights. Not ganks.

Yes, it absolutely can. I don’t mind that. If a fight is good to start with, and we don’t believe we’re going to get a supercapital dick in the face, we’ll take the fight. Disengaging isn’t all that hard if they escalate. And if we whelp, no big deal, we’ll bring a better fight next time.


(Shallanna Yassavi) #12

Having a wormhole into someone else’s system doesn’t mean you can automatically blob your target because mass limits.

Having a wormhole into your nullsec system doesn’t make you think that new unknown came through that wormhole. It makes you think it’s a cloaky scout with a cyno ready to go and a gank squad parked a few systems over. Maybe that wasn’t the intent, but that is a likely result because EVE.

Carebears aren’t skittish because they want to be bored, they’re skittish because not being skittish is how people lose ships pointlessly. They have zero control over what’s hotdropped on them after they’re tackled and the cyno’s lit. The only control they have over the fight is if they’re in warp by the time the hunter lands.


(Old Pervert) #13

I can agree that it’s never worth fighting a battle you know you’ll lose… but why are you out in null if you haven’t got friends? Playing the odds, hiding from fights. It feels like a given to me that if you’re in Null, you need to know that what you’re flying is going to die at some point.

I’m not at all concerned about what drops on me when I PVE. You can bet I’ll try to warp out, as my PVE ship is most definitely not geared to fight players (it’s not geared to fight anything really, just wipe the floor with rats).

But if they do get me, I know that the cyno I keep fitted to my ship will bring in enough faxes, carriers, supers, and if authorized, titans to push the hostiles off grid. If my friends aren’t on (the ones with authority to drop said caps), I’m not ratting.


(Shallanna Yassavi) #14

Some people like playing hide-and-seek. Sometimes I’m one of them. With what I fly around, I pretty much have to hide because I don’t have any scary “surprises” on standby like supers and faxes. And I very rarely bother with null because I don’t fly nullified ships, and escalations out to null tend to go through choke points which are a losing prospect to anyone without a nullified (probably T3C) ship.

But then there are those times when you gate into a system with 20 anoms and a 5/10 or two which don’t get (other) visitors for hours on end.


(Rowells) #15

???


(Old Pervert) #16

Amazingly, my friends don’t spend 100% of their time playing Eve. If we aren’t in a position to reach an acceptably critical mass, I don’t undock to rat, and anyone who does is doing so with the knowledge that our response may be inadequate to save them.

Just because the space isn’t safe doesn’t mean my alliance and I don’t rely on each other to provide that safety.


(Rowells) #17

You do realize that argument basically leaves you with space filled with people who can make the space safe like you did.

Which means that part about “not taking a fight you know you’ll lose” or “unless we are dramatically outnumbered or hard countered” would apply to everyone. You would be even more hard pressed to find any “actual fights” than before.

Any gang that roams knows that on the other side of that hole is a group of hardcore bears with FAXes and supers on standby. Every group that rats knows that roaming gangs won’t be able to out escalate their rescue fleet. And if either of those premise turns out to be false, each group can just fall back into the old premise of “Don’t take a fight you know you’ll lose”.

Of course that’s all pretty hypothetical. What you will achieve is a totally destabilized travel/logistics system and absolutely plenty of those hanks you’re not interested in.

if you’re current area is that starved for content, then move. Go start some fights. Take a break from the krabbing and poke people until you get what you want. CCP can’t make “actual fights” for you. There will be some risks involved, but from your previous statements, it sounds like that won’t be much of an issue for you.

And pro tip: if you’ve gone 40 jumps for a roam that may or may not work out, I’m absolutely sure you can find a wormhole that can take you farther than that even closer. Hell, our own group does it on a regular basis just to get to specific places faster for contract work. If you’re just looking for spontaneous fights, it’s a much simpler task, and you can also try it out against any wormhole residents that you might cross.


(Old Pervert) #18

Just because I only rat when I know we have the numbers to fight doesn’t mean everyone does. If that were the case, a lot of the kills on the killboards wouldn’t be happening.

I fully agree that risk aversion leads to people either blueballing or heavily out-escalating their attackers… but “more contact” doesn’t increase the intensity of that decision, only the frequency of it. It’s already “that way” now.

Consider, for example, what happened last night for us. A blue rorq was sieged at an inopportune time. A roaming cepter tackled it long enough for dictors to keep it bubbled.

Our alliance pinged for a rage form to try and save it. We undocked what we had to try and peel the tackle off (smartbombing the bubbles, shooting cepters/dictors). Ultimately, they managed to keep it in place long enough for a force that we were not able to counter to come in and kill the rorq, and the response fleet bugged out.

Had our overwatch been at full strength, we’d have mopped the floor with them and racked up a few hundred billion in kills. But it wasn’t at full strength, it was well outside of our prime time, and we lost because of it.

Content still happened for both sides. They were in pvp ships, we were in pvp ships (ofc not the rorq). We bugged out to stem our losses when their overwhelming force arrived (“when we lost” basically), but before that, it was absolutely a good fight.

With more ways into space that bypass intel networks, stuff like that can happen more often. Granted, it won’t be with multiple hostile supercarriers on-grid via wormholes, but a battleship gang can still counter a carrier group by defanging them. And battleship roams would definitely become a thing again if wormholes negated the utterly PAINFUL travel time.


(Rowells) #19

Yes, that’s how it currently works. But I was describing a situation after the proposed change. Having a volatile entrance in every system or constellation would drastically impact the behavior of players afterward. That’s not to mention the hundreds or thousands of exit holes that will can pop up out of nowhere once a static somewhere else is rolled.

I imagine after numerous times being tackled, the pilot basically comes down to a couple choices. Either put the thing away until proper response can be handy, or start trying to use it as bait. For a pvp pilot this may seem great, but when it becomes harder and harder to find targets that aren’t bait, eventually we’ll be at square one again, but this time we will have dramatically impacted parts of the game that didn’t need drastic changes.

Having a constant hole to roll until you find a suitable target totally warps power projection and geography. The implications of a system like this will greatly impact numerous other aspects of EVE enormously. Wormholes already do this with their own statics in order to find more targets where they like.

And that’s the whole point. The frequency in which the standing fleet needs to have overwhelming force at any given time just becomes a huge PITA and begins to put undue stress on alliances not capable of doing so. The floor of effort goes higher and higher without much extra effort or risk necessary on the attackers part.

And the proposed k-space statics were not needed at all. This kind of thing happens daily. Some groups specifically do this kind of thing as their primary source of content.

There is always going to be a bit of up front effort for these kinds of things. This isn’t anything new. Why does EVE have to spoon-feed this kind of thing to you?

If painful travel time is what is really at the core of your problem, then adjust your plans. Battleships are intentionally slower than other ships, it’s a serious balance consideration to make when you choose them. If you want to be mobile, you have to fit for that. That fit may come with consequences, but that is exactly as it is intended.

Hell, I’ve run fleets of machs that all kept decent pace with our interceptors. Shouldn’t be too hard to get a T1 BS around frigate warp speeds. Could also take a rain bridge part way, or even run a combat BLOPs roam.

And I’ll say this again, if the content is dry in your area, deploy somewhere where it is plentiful. Literally every major pvp alliance does this. It doesn’t even have to be everyone, just grab some dudes who want content and take a trip. It’s simple, effective, and doesn’t completely trash entire aspects of balance in the game.


(system) #20

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