Courier contract issues with citadels

Hmhmhm.

It really helps condensing new information in the initial post. Reading through all of them is usually a waste of time … you know why specifically for this forum and, well, it is usually not a thing done in general. In any way does it help a lot with thinking about a problem, when already addressed points are mentioned at the start.

Hm. I’ll think about this.

Something

Something’s missing…

Which new information, though? I have already stated in my opening post that I doubt that the post box will ever be a thing because I know that scams need to be a thing. No new information beyond that has been posted at all in the other 55 posts in the topic.

You know… this part actually demands my attention.

In the long run, there will be some guy who publicises a global blocklist everyone will be using, with the exception of two distinct groups of players:

  1. New ones, because they have no idea.
  2. Ignorant ones who do not care.

A problem, because it reduces the scams to two groups, of whichonly the latter is truly acceptable.

Hmhmhm.

Guess I have to read them all. Will keep this on my to-do-list.

And now it’s time for work.

image

Just in case: Has it potentially occurred to you that I posted this picture as demonstration of how many scam contracts and citadel contracts there are? And has it maybe occurred to you that this filter option only works if you can block people? And has it maybe occurred to you if you cannot block any more people that this filter becomes meaning less? Ad by the the way, since yesterday I have had to block another 5 contract issuers related to Fly Fearless.

When looking for scams the chances of finding scams is higher than when intentionally looking for good contracts.

Ironic picture is ironic because the amount of real contracts that exist just to Jita is over 100…

The ability to share block lists or contact lists is indeed something many players have been asking for. But realistically, what is the likelihood of CCP ever introducing this? The scam would be made unfeasible either way, under the scenario of easy sharing of block lists or your suggested postbox lite. Except for not blocking at all and wasting even more time checking all the contracts (as you have already realized as well. Thank you for that), I do not see other solutions than blocking right now that for now allow scams and hide them from competent people.

Besides, most of these scams rely on inexperience of new players or ignorance of players already. Just yesterday someone lost a hefty collateral to an access denial scam and came into the Haulers Channel afterwards to tell us about his experience. If he had not been new and knew about the HC, he could already have prevented this tragic loss.

@MinerArt
Yes, they do. What is your point? In case you have not noticed: My picture contains 3 contracts to NPC stations as well as 1 contract to a “reliable” structure. Have you seen them?

The point is… you are asking CCP do the work for avoiding scam contracts for you. CCP is not obligated to deal with your intelligence factoring into your ability to read. Nor is CCP required to give you the ability to join a courier group which has contracts that are NOT listed as public.

Wouldn’t this logic mean it’d be okay to remove all blocklists too? Why hide chat in local or mails in your mailbox if you can just ignore them? Sorry, but while you might disagree all of the suggested solutions to (at least a perceived by some players) problem are needed, but then what are your arguments against it? Would it harm you or anyone in any way? The first suggested solution i “could” see harming some, since it makes scams not an easy click for assured isk (but that’s IMO a good thing, scams should take some amount of effort), all the others would literally only offer a benefit as far as i can see.

When you say this, please do realize that at any time, people are putting up contracts that are absolutely pointless and will never be moved. People posting a 20 jump route with a collateral of 1b and a reward of 5m happen, but everyone will just filter those out/ignore (with the ignore tool, probably) and not do them due to being such a poor offer for haulers.

Yea it’d be such a shame if someone actually organized haulers and contracts so that things get from point A to point B in game with some consistency. Like that will ever happen?

https://red-frog.org/

They already introduced features to avoid scam contracts. Remember, filters and blocking issuers is already a thing. The matter is, however, that these filters in the contemporary setting are not sufficient any longer and can be overwhelmed with relative ease. I am not asking for new tools to be implemented, I am asking for the existing tools to be adapted and expanded to meet contemporary needs that CCP themselves introduced.

You do maybe also remember that Red Frog does not let everyone in? Yes? And that maybe some people do not want to join a big group and instead haul for themselves? Yes? Has it maybe also occurred to you that Red Frog also makes ample use of the block list? Of course not you, because you have exceptional eye sight and can read through the veil of the limited information in the contract search results and know exactly what you are doing with all these <!>.

Uhu. It would be a shame. Good that the Haulers Channel actually does that and helps haulers to haul properly and safely, without having to fulfill some membership requirements. Also good that the Haulers Channel allows almost everyone to join and ask questions.

You may also remember that Red Frog has done the legwork to get their hauling contracts done properly? Yes? And that maybe doing work for yourself results in you needing to do this legwork also? Of course not. You just demand that someone else do the work for you so that you can earn maximum profit with minimal effort in complete safety.

Do you maybe remember that I have already blocked characters and thus have done my work to figure out what scams are and what not? And that these scammers now put me in a place where I can do as much work as I want but they will still show up to me because I cannot filter them out of my search results? Have you considered that leg work? No? I thought so.

In case you do not realize it: Blocking requires a lot of leg work to figure out if a structure is a scam, if an issuer is a scammer, if an new issuer or structure is related to an already existing scam issuer, and to document these information. The ingame blocking is just the icing of the cake after a lot of work. No, you did not realize this? Of course not, because I just demand CCP to work for me and give me things. :thinking:

And just for the record: RF has not done anything differently than I and others have: They also figure out scam issuers, block them from the search results and their service. They have not done any more work than I have.

But you have done no work in creating your own trusted character list who will come back to you time and again for contracts that will make you a steady income?

Have you considered making a corporation which accepts contracts that are pre-filtered because you did the work to set the prices beforehand? Oh wait… No… Private hauling contracts don’t exist to you.

:rofl: Good one. Have you checked Yemontoshi’s list in the post above? No? Figured. I have contributed many structurs and issuers to that list by informing mods about their activities. What have you contributed to such a list for RF?

But of course, I just want to have things given to me. That’s why I want more block slots that do not automatically fill with scam issuers. And I absolutely want CCP to introduce the post box because I do not want these scams to happen. Honestly, do you even read what I write? You are so ignorant to everything I type it’s starting to become a really sad joke. Just in case: This paragraph contains strong traces of sarcasm. For the people to whom this is not obvious.

Prices have nothing to do at all with the issue. It’s the destinations, not the payment.

Then why are you ignoring the ability to search destination that already exists in game…

Like searching for contracts to Jita, or Amarr, or any other thing that would filter out all these non-dockable stations in such a speedy manner that… yea… not worth explaining it anymore since you won’t actually use the existing filters.

If people pay rates even half of RF it’s not an issue, things will move. That’s beside the point though; you stated there’s over 800 contracts available, i was merely pointing out that a very large chunk of them are basically to be ignored/filtered out due to being abysmal pay. In other words, throwing the 800 number out isn’t much use.

Maybe because I do not just want to go there? You know, there are other locations you can deliver to and from? And maybe I want to see more contracts from other places than just the big hubs? If RF limits your ability and search parameters this way, I don’t envy you. I want to see contracts from all over the place sans the contracts to destinations that I have done the leg work to establish them as scam destinations.

Oh, and by the way: You probably have not noticed it yet, but most access denial contracts to scam citadels originate in Jita and Amarr. Your filter suggestion is really helpful in this regard. Really. :smile: Or do you want to tell me I should set filters so that the destination are limited to Jita or Amarr only? And by that ignore all contracts to other nice locations? If you want to limit yourself in this way, do it. I do not want that and since the existing filters just need updating there is also no issue at all with entitlement or some other accusations that you throw around.

Yea… thanks for ignoring delivery TO Jita or Amarr from ANYHWHERE AT ALL. Good job.