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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g_N9hVj9UnmFYr40_r3aqOLsm5b-qukqkk4Edy9sbUA/mobilebasic
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Mining from someone’s Athanor without permission should cause suspect flag.
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Cargo/ship scanners should get suspect flagged if used on a neutral or red player
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Citadels should no longer allow ships to tether if they are suspect or criminal. -5 to -10 sec status.
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Add bounties to abyssal rats for a baseline profitability.
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All capital ships should not be able to be bumped once warp drive is engaged unless pointed.
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Bring back the watchlist. Will allow more active hunting for war decs/kill rights instead of blanket war decs for content.
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Allow NPC corps to be war decced or push players out of NPC corps. No one should be immune.
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Fix the war dec system so people can’t just jump corps to escape a dec. Include a goal so they can’t go on forever without both parties agreeing to it.
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Remove incursions from high sec.
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Remove suspect flag from tier 4-5 Abyssal space. The trillions already lost there and number of high sec ganks prove that it isn’t needed.
2 Likes
I think that the best way I can help you is by answering, to the best of my knowledge and experience, any questions you have regarding the topic you want to represent to CCP. So please, ask any questions you have and share any doubts you feel that could be relevant to your goal.
You can not do anything for Hi sec because “some” null space aliances blackmail ccp on any hi sec improvement and now we have so much problems in hi sec and empty null sec with their “EMPIRES”
Math is easy 10% Eve players ( null sec residents ) blackmailed cpp on cost of 90% Eve players which reside in hi sec
“Go to null sec” is not argument it is forced relocation !!!
I think @Brisc_Rubal, the core of the angst you are seeing by the highsec partisans in this thread is in this muddled sentence. Their anger doesn’t come from the real, out-of-game development decisions so much (although there are some vocal champions that disagree with CCP’s attempts at new PvE and would prefer them to just give them more safe, predictable, easily beaten content like more missions). No, it come from the perception that nullsec domination of the CSM has resulted in-game redistribution of wealth to nullsec groups at the expense of highsec.
And honestly, they are not totally wrong. Well, they might be wrong that the CSM had anything to do with it, but since 2014-15 CCP has massively cranked open the wealth faucets of nullsec, both minerals and ISK, while not doing much until very recently for highsec. And the effect is noticeable - people used to be able to PLEX accounts with highsec mining or missioning rather easily, but now that is generally only feasible to grind for PLEX if you move out of highsec (well, at least for the grinders/farmers as the traders and industrialists have been impacted less or not at all).
The change in the relative distribution of the wealth faucets has had a negative effect on highsec (activity down 40%) and a positive effect on nullsec (activity up 25%, last time I checked). Personally, I think this intentional and probably good for the game (at least if CCP can find a way to make nullsec more dangerous and more fun) and don’t think the CSM had much say in this, but I have no idea, and your council is an easy target for anger over this redistribution of wealth by the game developers.
That’s my view anyway. In absolute terms, highsec has not had any other significant game play changes for years that would explain the anger. The only nerfs in recent years have been to gankers and wardecs (which seem to make most highsec residents happy - although I will make a case this has contributed to the decline of highsec if asked) and the last year especially has seen focus return to highsec game development with several new big-ticket features being added. I think some of those features do need iteration, but it’s hard to explain the anger seen by the highsec partisans any other way than a sense of being wronged in game by having their economic dominance diminished some by the increase of wealth now sent to nullsec.
I mean, you can still run L4 missions or mine rocks exactly as you could before. Why should it matter what goes on in nullsec if your game play is still there and exactly the same? The answer: it doesn’t pay as much as it did before which rankles certain egos whose sense of “winning” was tied to the economic value of their rewards.
It’s silly, but I think even CCP underestimates the importance the reward of an activity has on the perception and acceptance of a game mechanic. And the types of players with this accumulation-of-wealth-is-paramount mindset - let’s just call them farmers - who care most about how rewards are distributed are over-represented in highsec. To be fair, nullsec has their share of them now who shriek in a very similar way every-time CCP hints at a nerf to their wealth faucets, but highsec farmers have a long heritage and history agitating to make their wealth sources more bountiful and even safer every chance they get.
Safe sources of significant wealth does not make for an especially compelling PvP sandbox game despite what many farmers will disingenuously tell you. “Make my jump freighter safer and there will be more wars! Make my mining ship safer as more minerals equals cheaper ships for everyone and more ‘gud fights’!” These are self-serving lies. Such safety is corrosive to the virtual world this game is trying to be and we are slowly drowning in too much wealth and too much safety.
Meh, I hope you have the energy to keep sifting through the noise for useful ideas that make the game itself better, not just make whatever player is presenting it richer in-game. You seem off to a good start though and am looking forward to see how you distill the feedback you are getting and present it to CCP at the upcoming CSM summit.
2 Likes
I will take those numbers, as my own impression after returning for a few days after Abyss was that population in highsec is 30% below what it was in 2016 when I “won” EVE -based on people in local around my old places. And back in 2016, it already was below 2014 numbers.
The thing is that 40% less highseccers are a lot more people than 25% more nullseccers. And the missing people just left the game as a consequence of the decissions taken after Incarna and which cyrstalized with Rubicon.
Ripard Teg’s words in 2013 were prophetical:
(…) If you buy into the space colonization vision, then I can safely say that you have several HOLY ■■■■ moments ahead of you.
On the other hand, if you do not buy into the vision, then with one exception I think you may find the next few expansions to be not your cup of tea. A few scraps will fall from the table onto everyone’s plate, but EVE is definitely on a journey for the next three years and you’re either part of it or you’re not. (…)
That was back in 2013 when the first stage of Rubicon plan was scheduled to last about 3 years, but so far it’s on the 5th year and running… and Ripard Teg’s words are the internal reason why EVE went F2P, why MTs and skillpoint extractors are a thing, why highsec is losing players that quit the game faster than new ones join, and why CCP should begin considering why highseccers are highseccers, rather than why they are not nullseccers, and what can CCP do to keep them playing and paying.
The Rubicon plan has worked as intended but also has costed players and revenue to CCP, and as such, it’s been a pyrrhic victory. CCP is now a company with less customers, less revenue and less employees than it was in 2013, and IMO the decline of highsec players as direct consequence of the Rubicon plan is a relevant reason.
CCP and EVE need more Highsec -not as others would want it, but as what highsec became to be on its own. The people who naturally fitted into highsec still are out there, looking for a spaceships game like no other. But EVE the PvP game is not their game.
4 Likes
I’m thinking about highsec all the time, because my home base is there, and the conclusion is: it’s mostly fine and balanced to me.
There is one area I would like to see improvements.
Make it viable as a smaller entity to hold structures against the mega alliances, have some guerrilla warfare options to make the live of for example PanFam (controlling the market hubs) more difficult. You can’t solve this with “mercs” as all mercs are blue to each other and with the null blocs.
Preferable with a free-for-all option for defenders in wars and/or a real force multiplier of citadels to fleets, to even out fights 10 vs 100. Also not having the GTFO module available in highsec was a mistake.
The current timers also favor the attacker, because citadels in highsec are only used for services, which will be shut down the day after the first attack, and keep off for another week. Without the need to actually show up to the final timer, you can disable corps’ businesses with minimal effort. This is a highsec only problem, as timers and ecosystem work differently in other areas of space.
3 Likes
1-2-3-5 I disagree
10 also
But the rest I’d be fine with
8 can be heavily abused to
Reason?
This is true. It also fits the eve-offline data that shows about a 30% decrease in PCU from 5 years ago. It’s a little hard to interpret the data with both the input broadcasting ban and the introduction of alpha clones, but I think it is clear there has been a significant loss in highsec activity, offset by a smaller (both in absolute terms and as a percentage) bump in nullsec activity over the same time.
While I think there is some truth in that, it’s hard to judge the success of failure of the Rubicon plan as we haven’t really seen it implemented yet. The end goal of that was new space to colonize and we aren’t there, and it looks like we may never get there. CCP managed to only get through parts of the plan, and even then those were ones largely replicating existing functionality. The only main pillars that got a real new iteration were the sov system which, along with Upwell structures, have had mixed reviews, but regardless it wasn’t the opening of new space the plan promised. In fact, we don’t even have the player-built stargates yet.
While tons of new and cool stuff has been added to the game in the last five years, it is hard to claim that we are near to realizing the grand Rubicon plan that CCP Seagull articulated when she took the reins.
I guess if we haven’t seen player stargates or new space to colonize yet that is a failure on CCP’s part, but it is hard to say the plan was bad rather than the execution botched, or maybe just too ambitious. I wonder if Ripard Teg is going to spill the beans on what was really going on behind the scenes and what the original plan was back pre-Rubicon as seems to hint at next year when his NDA expires?
Well, the rumour mill says we will have a new Executive Producer announced any day now and I imagine shortly after, we’ll get an updated roadmap.
As for highsec though, I still think the majority of the decrease is directly due to changes in the macro economy that have priced some highsec casual players out of the PLEX market, and driven others either out of the game, or to nullsec. There must also be some that were bored out of the game by lack of new features in highsec, or that left feeling that nullsec was getting too much undue attention, but that isn’t as true anymore as much of the last year has been focused on highsec features. It will be interesting to see if that translates into an increase in highsec numbers or highsec happiness.
1 Like
I mean this could be good, but then again it could prevent ninja mining (afaik ninja salvaging doesn’t give timers or suspect status)
This one is pointless, it would just get people to scan in rookie ships (lol)
This screws people in highsec, lowsec, nullsec, j-space, so yeah nah
Another pointless request, it would affect conflict all over the place just because some are too lazy to use scouts to haul
Why more safety, safety is for risk-averse people…
Don’t forget that highsec is infested with alts, I do encounter more alts (of other sec players) in the play niche I’m operating in than genuine highsec players.
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Ninja salvaging is from a wreck that concord deems a nuisance.
And would supply content for bored people waiting for someone to shoot at.
Just high sec because that is what the topic is about. It can supply people to shoot at. More content. Besides there was a time when they didn’t exist anyway and people were able to play just fine
Forcing a solo player to purchase another account just so they can play is bad game design. (Good economic design though)
People are getting ganked coming out of all abyss levels. This way though high sec can get a little love. That is what the topic is about.
About alts
First we must look at that from other side:
If null sec and lo sec are soo good and we all MUST go into null/low sector why 99% players from lo/null sec have alts in Hi sec ???
Secound Aboout people:
I know myself, I am old grumpy anti-socilal whaealty IT specialist and I want max freedom in playing EVE, I do not want other people in my corp, I have 6 omegas and XY alphas in my corporation, ok that is MY alts and I am sure there are many other anti-social-egoistic players like me.
This two reason can explain you some reasons behind alts in Hi sec.
2 Likes
Subjective. I am not angry, nor am I frustrated. Merely disappointed in the high sec war dec mechanics as a whole. Too much “no fighting, just legal ganking” happens for it.
I see CCP putting out “content” but really it’s just another dead end situation. I’d rather the players have ability actually help/hinder the corps rather than these point and collect missions we all have. I don’t think CCP could make it happen with current npc mechanics. Be happy to discuss this (on forum or in chat) on a thread dedicated to this.
Repeat level 5 mission runners can still PLEX without issue. Ice miners are the only ones who really got their PLEX either. The unlocking of the minerals and isk fauces in null really didn’t change that. A level 4 courier mission runner could easily PLEX by abusing their income LP as well. Comically a majority of these don’t need to in order to enjoy the content that exists that they do. I consider it a flaw of the NPC mission system. Unfortunately I have zero idea how to fix it. I’m also not sure if it should be fixed as it’s stable starting income so you can prepare for whatever you want to do without the NPC corps fueling your wallet.
The biggest problem for little people came from… wait it’s already in this thread.
Makes me wonder if we could convert LP into these effective events. Only the CCP will know.
Side note: Yes. I do mean ALL of those being something you hire with LP. Including Pirate faction raiders.
Nullsec got buffed, hence less people running Incursions or doing other stuff in highsec. BUT highsec is still where you can make the most money as a normal player, just because of the market hubs and the high population. No grinding in nullsec will ever come close.
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Wars and ganking for easy, inconsequential PVP. Missions for a little bit of change of scenery from the 500th Sanctum or Forsaken Hub in the week. Sperging in an actually active local like Jita instead of wasting away in your empty null sec system. Generally more fun flying around because you don’t have to pay attention at every gate (yes, sometimes flying around without a thrill is fun as well). Trading to make money because outside of 1DQ and DPN9, trading is stale and slow paced. Scamming because it’s heavily frowned upon to scam your own alliance guys. Etc. etc.
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It’s also how you can gain intel on who is spending the most on blinged out ships because amazingly enough you sell the most blinged out equipment on the market at the lowest price on your alt so you know who to go a hunting now.
If more mining and shipping is destroyed, isk is lost and prices go up due to destroyed items. You seem to suggest more mining and shipping destruction - a reduction of wealth in game - could make the PvP sandbox more compelling … How?