CSM 13 - WH/J space Issues/Suggestions/Ideas

CSM 13 began its duties today with our first official meeting with CCP.

As I noted I would do to those who made comments, I’m creating open issues threads for the various areas of space that players may have ideas, concerns or issues with.

Please use this thread for Wormhole space - issues specific to that region of space.


Hi Guys, just some suggestions:

Worm Hole Entrance Link adjustment’s:

It would be nice if wormholes had different tactical advantage’s, such as the already existing static link’s. Having a link to the same region would be extremely beneficial and highly sort after making that worm hole worth more tactically. Imagine having one linked to the citadel region or your enemies nullsec location so you can constantly launch raids at them from all over their lands, the only random spawn factor would be which system in that region.

Mobile device interacting with wormholes:

A mobile device that forms around the wormhole and stabalizes it making it last maybe 72 hours instead of 24 or until that mobile structure gets shot and killed (no reinforce timer).
Maybe there is a different mobile device to increase the mass allowed.

And last but not least:

FAX need’s a nerf badly.


Bug: Random closes, speculated to be an issue from when some 16 hour wormholes were increased to last 24 hours instead.

Bug: ‘Ghost sigs’ where if you’re docked when a wormhole closes, or have a sig ignored on your scanner it then takes quite a long time to be removed from your probe window or in many cases persists until you relog.

Some kind of maximum time for a sig to remain in a system before despawning in that particular hole would be nice so that anoms don’t pile up in empty systems.

Increase bookmarks and give us alliance ones, not wh specific but bookmarks are perhaps even more vital for us than people in k-space.

C4 sites could use a rework, there is very little point in running them, you pretty much go from C3s to C5s and the 4s are a waste of time even bothering with.

For the above posters suggestion, I dislike the region thing for wormholes, this would result in alliances controlling all of the static routes in and out of their systems effectively giving us nullsec levels of safety, which would be detrimental to wormhole space IMO.

  • FAX machines are still way too strong for the scale of fight that is possible in wormholes, and it has killed the meta and most of the higher end of pvp. Local rep amount (and probably remote) on nin and lif needs to be turned down for sure.

  • Cap escalations should have more of the blue loot come from avengers, as they’re currently something to avoid as much as possible rather than extra risk and reward.

  • Marauders need to be able to refit in bastion.


Did someone mention Faxes? Because it’s worth mentioning it again to really drill that point in.



Thank you for taking the time to solicit feedback from wormholers. Here are what I believe to be the biggest issues in wormholes right now:

  1. High-class PVE needs a rebalance. There needs to be more incentive to use capital ships. Farming capitals have all but disappeared in C5 space and that’s a shame. Right now the optimal farming strategy is to use MJD battleships, which do not lead to good PVP opportunities nor escalation. The value of Avengers needs to be increased, and something should be done to make running C5 sites with 1-2 dreads more viable.

  2. FAX are far too strong in wspace, and the Ninazu in particular has entrenched a stale meta. Something needs to be done to nerf the power of triple capital cap injector FAX fits that have minimal counterplay potential. Old school wspace brawls required much more diverse usage of ewar and tactics, and the current meta is simply “wait until the FAX runs out of cap charges and then kill stuff… oh and maybe we get lucky and he messes up a couple times before then”. It’s boring.

  3. The Loki is the only viable fleet PvP T3 in wspace. The Legion and Proteus desperately need a buff to see some kind of usage in fleet combat. There was a place for every T3 in the old school meta, and now it’s just all Lokis all the time and the data clearly shows that.

  4. Wspace is literally dying from bitrot. Everyone has noticed an accelerated rate of game-breaking issues in wspace. Disappearing wormholes (especially lowsec holes) and desync (probably related to capital bumping and/or citadel grids) are the worst issues at the moment.

  5. The Z142 nerf needs to be reversed. High connectivity to nullsec was one of the best facets of C5 space, and frankly, the decision to nerf the spawn rate because some kspace krabs couldn’t be bothered to roll their connections is kind of mind boggling. Wspace needs more connectivity, not less.

  6. Weeklong evictions are unfun grind fests. Citadels 2.0 helped tremendously, but in my opinion we need to get back to a place in the game where weekend evictions are possible. There are too many timers in wspace set to weekdays at downtime that no one with normal daily routines can reasonably contest. Let the defender choose the timezone for reinforcements, but don’t let them choose the time AND the day.


Everything @Ryan_Ordo said is spot on and things that were discussed repeatedly by Noobman in previous summits. CCP should have those notes from the past two years of him bringing these issues to them. The hope always was that some future CSM could get them to act on them.

Ignore suggestions for “new this” or “new that” especially wormhole stabilizers or some kind of new static mechanic. It isn’t going to happen. Get the little things fixed and some of the bigger bugs and balance issues and wspace will love you.

As a C4 resident, I don’t have much issue specifically with C4 sites but they are, again, the domain of blinged up Rattlesnakes for those of us that live there. Many of the same issues that plague C5/C6 space with snakes apply and yes, truth is, most would just run C5/C6 sites instead.

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Thanks for soliciting WH suggestions - we hope someone on the CSM will represent our interests.

Request: Add an expiration time to WH anomalies & signatures. Perhaps 7 days.

Problem 1: Because connections to WH’s are random, large numbers of anomalies can build up in a system while other systems have a dearth of PVE opportunities.

Problem 2: Some people have begun to purposely let data, relic and gas signatures build up in their systems as a deterrent to other players scanning their systems. This causes other systems to have few gas sites, and it makes it harder to wander the WH chains looking for PVP opportunities.


Problem 2 isn’t even a problem, my Corp used to purposely leave data, relic, and gas sites knowing that explorers would run them. We also knew that it could lead to escalations from the other party if we ran theirs. Some of our funniest battles came from doing this, if you can’t n use these to your advantage then I’m not sure what to say.


Hi guys, I think the farm of drifter’s BS in c5-c6 should be changed. Now it can be farmed with citadels and this breaks any pvp content: to get 300mil ISK per 10 minutes you need one citadel (1kkk ISK) and one alpha window on cheap frigate. I’m really surprised, why the top PVE content in c5-c6 wh is so secure? I propose to change drifter’s BS logic to avoid the citadels and to add some warp stabs to drifter’s BS to farm it only in warp disruptor or to have 15+ points in the fleet. This can add more content to c5-c6 and make the farm more spicy.


I agree completely, citadel’s should not have the option to target npc’s, only players.



  • Second Static WH Connections for all W-Space Systems.
  • Rework of the W-Space 100% Sites
  • Automatic despawn for sites after 5- 7 day
  • Drifter Spawns in C3 & C4 ?
  • Doesnt have to do with W-Space, but also nice for the W-Holers… PI - Production in Athanors
  • T3C 's , No more Skill Loss by PVP T3Cs losses ,… etc etc etc…
  • and please Eccomic Report for the W-SPACE

greatings Kira Hhallas

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If they loose cloaky and nullification modules then I see this as a fair trade :D.

Best thing the CSM could do for WH space is team up with CCP Fozzie and write him a killer resume and get him a job offer away from Eve Online that he can’t refuse.

To ‘defend’ Astra farming slightly. An attacker can easily kill the ship webbing/scramming the drifter, which will be an omega character and not an alpha as Eva states. An alpha would be in breach of the EULA as you’re also controlling the astra. You can also steal the loot or attack the (often low power) Astras.

Drifter farming with Astras is no less of an issue than the Raven/Barghest 600km away FoF farming. Both are risk averse and to remove one without the other wouldn’t be ideal. At least the people using Astras have gone through the hassle of setting up and also then have to defend their own wormholes, rather than just making some bookmarks and cloaking up whenever someone appears on d-scan.

Can’t agree.
First of all - you farm 1 drifter per 10 minutes, you don’t need to crit/close your statics because of this short timeframe. Any raven/barghest farm duration is 1hour+ per one anomaly and this is not really safe.

Stealing loot near Astra with operator - mmm it is the shortest way to killboard J

About defending the wormholes - this is another topic. You can farm the drifters, put the loot and Astra fit to the cloaky transport and safely logoff it on long spot. The attackers will get empty Astra on killboard and nothing more.
I scan about 5-10 c5 per day and I see a lot of Astra in low power mode with the owner corporation of 3-6 windows. I hope to get more life to c5-c6 by requesting to change such farm, not only I will be happy to see rattlesnake’s with drifter on dscan :slight_smile:

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If you can tell me the magic trick to getting 1 drifter every 10 minutes without first having to clear the sites to spawn the drifter I’m all ears. Raven method is far safer as it’s harder to get a warp in on them.

And you can easily steal the loot - an Astra won’t lock a frigate fast enough for you to grab it and leave.

I would list that the main exploit for WH ratting are long range ravens and barghests.
Lots of them seen in C5+ systems - this kills the idea that high class wormhole ratting brings hight reward in exchange to high risk.
Nowadays, C5+ sites can be done solo, where cost of 1 raven can be exchanged for 1 site.
None of snakes are ratting, none of nestors also.
This basically kills group ratting, this kills PvP content.

This can be fixed very easily - increase range of rats lock till 700+ km and that is it.

People will start gathering into groups to rat in C5+ systems.
My 2 cents

Come on …if WH-People would do more PVP (Small Gangs, Small Corps) Raven and Range Barghests are easy to kill.

And… there are many ways to rome…

  • two static für every WH Class (C1) (C3) (C5) more interconnetions. More PVP ? Unsafer ?
  • lesser WH-System - W.Space would be smaller, more Action ? more PVP ?
  • Looking Range increase ? (Unsafer Sites)
  • etc etc…

And i have a idea, with the new Filaments… opening WH Conections. By use, 1% of the Filaments will open an WH Connection … :wink: so we have T1 - T5
T1 -> Will Lead to C1; T2 -> C3… T3 -> C3; etc etc etc…
just an idea i had at the monday morning coffeeee

They sit 600km out from the site, cloak up and move if they see combat probes. This means you’re limited to slowboating 600 or so km in a covops to get a warp in on them, or being very patient and catching them as they leave. I’m not spending hours camping for a shitfit Raven. They are not easy to kill by any stretch of the imagination as they’re incredibly risk averse.

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