Some people would argue the same for null applies. You can’t gain LP easily in Null. BPO’s don’t exist in null. Industry is often requiring taxed to 100% items in null from planetary interaction. Usually those PI objects aren’t stocked anyway so you’d need to go to an NPC station to start it.
It’s an endless circle of high said null said. Not worth continuing.
That person stopped making good comments and simply resorted to sarcasm because I made a statement they disagreed with.
What I don’t understand is why I am consistently told that I don’t understand someone’s position after they’ve made their position clear but I don’t agree with it. I have been consistently told that Level 4/5 sites are more dangerous in highsec than they are in nullsec, and I simply do not agree that this is true. When I explain why, I’m told by people with little to no nullsec experience things like “supercap umbrella” and the like, which are both wrong and simply highsec caricatures of what nullsec is like based on Delve and not the rest of the galaxy.
This is a two way street - if you expect me to listen when you explain how things happen in the area of space you live in, then I expect you to listen when I explain how things happen in the area of space I live in.
This is the kind of feedback I’ve been looking for. Thank you.
It can and it does.
I expect that the Abyssal sites will be expanded since they’ve proven popular.
I disagree, and given how many people, including me, have been running them compared to those who run other PvE things (I haven’t run a mission in years), I think they’re provided a needed boost to PvE content.
Is it perfect? No.
Here’s the bottom line in terms of my interactions with folks - I’m going to treat people as I’m treated. I am here to listen to your concerns (note, I’m one of the only ones doing this), and I’m going to engage in conversation. I am not a punching bag, and I’m not a sycophant. If I disagree or I think you’re saying things that are incorrect, I’ll tell you. I’m going to be honest.
I don’t know if I have the words to articulate correctly/effectively what I “read” from the posts you exchanged with Yiole; but please bear with me because I feel, what I see, as the miscommunication in your exchange of posts in this one instance exemplifies the miscommunication that, to me, appears to happen frequently when discussions on highsec take place.
you can read the following or not, as it’s apt to be long winded, but I, at least, feel this post is worth the effort of writing.
Yiole posted her list of items, and you read the post and drew the conclusion that the Abyssal sites were an example of what Yiole’s list was describing.
And you replied in good faith, “Abyssal sites”.
Since Abyssal sites are not what she is describing, in no way shape or form, she took offence and replied sarcastically to your post. (At least, this is my interpretation of your exchange up to this point.)
Since you had replied in good faith, you were in turn put off by her flippancy in responding.
This is the crux of the conflict in discussing highsec issues, our own personal interpretation of the words written. In person communication involves many layers, if Yiole was speaking to you in person on this topic once she realized you were misinterpreting her points, she might have tried to clarify her concerns. A forum format does not allow for the instant assessment, evaluation, and reexamination of one’s effectiveness in persuading others of your position, or point you are advocating in support of.
I have read many of Yiole’s posts regarding this topic, and have read the posts where she tried clarifying her position so others might better understand what she is trying to communicate.
Given my experiences in dealing with highsec pve players, I truly feel she has identified one of the areas of dissatisfaction within this group. How large a part of the player base this group comprises I have no idea. But, if you give her the benefit of the doubt, and simply don’t “close her out” or dismiss her, in terms she and others may, and in some cases do, find insulting, I believe she will continue to refine her message until you and many others can understand what she is trying to communicate.
I believe I understand what her point is, and can only advocate for you to continue to have a dialogue with her.
I believe it will prove worth while.
It took me some time to understand what the issue is. The feedback you found worthwhile in my post is a distillation of how I interpret her points.
The fact you took the time to respond at length to my post gives me hope you will look beyond the surface of the back and forth nature of forum communication.
What you found useful…is what Yiole (I believe) is talking about/advocating for…it was just filtered through me.
The message is the same…just with a different “accent”.
I wish you all the best.
Brisc_Rubal, I appreciate you opening this thread and at least giving high sec players a voice to be heard.
Overall, high sec is not as bad as most people would have you believe. For the most part high sec players time is limited due to RL, so we kind of want the biggest, best bang for our buck so to speak. The players I am around in game mostly play 5-10 hours a week and maybe 3-4 hours of that time at one sitting on the weekend, ie Saturday night/Sunday morning. I am on several chat channels in high sec and for the most part, players are satisfied and accept the game as it is currently. I know guys that log in and do nothing but run lvl 4’s for an hour or so in the evening. Some players would say that’s horribly boring night after night, but they really just want to relax and chill for awhile. For the players that come on and say this is boring or that is boring, there is nothing stopping them from trying something different in EVE, only their attitude is stopping them. That is what I love about this game, you are not bound to take a certain direction, you are free to choose your own course or change course at any time.
I have been taking some notes about what players are saying on the chat channels and I do feel there are a few things that could make high sec a better and more interesting place to live.
Remove the resource wars from high sec space. I do not believe these get used much and have been a terrible failure.
Remove FOB’s from high sec. These have terrible rewards for the time required to kill them compared to other activities. They are a very poor substitute for incursions, which I believe was their initial purpose.
Remove static ice belts from high sec (all secs) and make them Cosmic Signatures in random systems. One of the biggest complaints I hear are how the ice belts are swallowed up by multi boxers in 6 or 8 minutes, leaving smaller corps no chance to mine any ice for themselves. It would require a little extra work for players to scan down these sites, but I believe smaller corps would appreciate the chance to mine their own ice. It would also require players to move around New Eden, rather than sitting in one system waiting for a “timer” for when the new belt spawns. Random ice belts would also make it more viable to live in the outer edges of high sec or on high sec islands, having the ability to produce your own station fuel.
Create something to replace the small POS tower. This is more for the nomad lifestyle, which can be fun and interesting. My corp used to take a small POS into a wh for 2 or 3 days and ravage the system, pull up the POS and move out. It was a great weekend activity, but sadly we are losing that part of our experience. Currently the mobile depot is too small for this type of activity and stations take forever to deploy and retrieve. It does not have to be huge, but ideally hold 50k m3 or something close. Some players will say Orca, but not all wh will allow an Orca, so some sort of small deployable station is needed.
Create a drop box for high sec (all) citadels. This topic creates more rage than anything else I have heard concerning high sec, not only from haulers but from industrial players as well. Haulers are frustrated by the docking rights scam and how easily access can be denied. This benefits a select few players, mostly alts from FF spamming scam contracts, while hurting a lot of high sec players.
CCP wants citadels to be the future, but the argument from industrial players is “what’s the point of owning a citadel if we can’t get materials delivered”. For players with one account and limited time, it makes owning and using a citadel very difficult. I know of players that have waited days or weeks to get their mats delivered, just so they can start their jobs running. It takes a long time to train indy skills, research skills and hauling skills and there are players that prefer someone else take the risk of hauling goods. Corps like Red Frog, GHSOL and PUSH will not deliver to citadels because of the docking rights scam. Therefore players get frustrated about this and quit, leaving a crap load of citadels on low power across high sec. This is a something CCP can fix in 2 seconds, but in my opinion, no one there has the balls to do it.
The war dec system needs a major overhaul, but I honestly have no idea how that could be done. I do believe the current system is not working and is not fun, even for the high sec mercs.
Good luck on the CSM, hopefully some of this made sense. Thank you for your time.
First, I put a smiley after my statement, which is my way of indicating it was tongue in cheek. At the same time, I think there is an argument to be made that they do describe what they were asking for in a variety of ways. That’s where we disagreed. And that disagreement went back to our original conversation when the statement was made that nobody in HighSec can (not is willing to, but can) do 4/5 sites because they result in a suspect timer.
I’ve been doing this for a long, long time. I understand how forums work and how the written word isn’t always interpreted the same way by people. So I appreciate you attempting to bridge the gap here.
As I said before, I’m willing to discuss anything and I’m willing to listen to every point of view, especially ones that I disagree with or that represent opinions of folks in areas I’ve not played in a lot of time.
If I disagree with someone, it’s not because I don’t understand what they’re saying or that I don’t understand the mindset of similar players. Sometimes, it’s just because I disagree.
It did, and some of these things are actively being developed, so you’re ahead of the curve. If you haven’t seen Fozzie’s talk at EVE Down Under, check it out.
Thanks for taking the time and being constructive. I appreciate it.
If a person tells you that he haves a problem, and your answer is that you don’t think it’s a problem, what is that person to do?
I’ve told you that, to highsec eyes, F4-F5 and the criminal flag are not the same risk that running them in nullsec. You have denied it.
Now you have to choose what do you want.
Do you want to be right?
Or do you want to learn why highseccers think different than you on this matter?
What I hope they do is recognize that we have a disagreement, and leave it at that.
From a factual perspective, the idea that a level 4/5 mission leaving someone with a 15 minute suspect timer in highsec makes them less safe than someone running the same mission in nullsec is simply factually not accurate.
The mechanic based risk is the same: anybody can shoot you with a suspect timer in high sec, anybody can shoot you period in null sec. The level of risk, in that regard, is the same.
I recognize that some players do not want to take the risk of getting the suspect timer - you explained why that is and I think it’s fairly obvious - but that doesn’t mean that it is riskier to do this in highsec than in null.
If highsec eyes say that the sky is red, when it’s clearly blue, I’m not going to just say “well, I guess you think it’s red so I guess it’s red.” I’m going to tell you what I see.
We don’t have to agree. I recognize your concerns, but I disagree with it.
Do I need to agree with everything you say in order to represent your perspective? Of course not.
Loaded questions. Correct or incorrect are not the only positions on the matter. Assuming someone thinks different as a basis for discarding opinions.
I was in BoB. I was in AAA. I was in NC. In fact most of my EVE experience has been in null…
But to you my opinion no longer counts because I don’t have time to run constant CTAs.
I still do null exploration in sov null and see plenty of FAX carriers guarding Abyssal sites.
Whatever man. If you want to discount someone because they don’t agree with you, you’re more than welcome to. I guess you’re one step away from calling us lefty names for it.
When did I say that?
I wasn’t addressing you with my comment, was I? No.
I was making a larger point about some of the folks in here making statements that aren’t accurate. I don’t recall you saying that the supercap umbrella makes null safer for somebody running abyssal sites, and that was the specific issue I was talking about.
I’m not the one doing that.
Understood. Now you’ve answered the question I had when I started reading this thread, before deciding to give it a chance.
@Mike_Azariah do you still think this guy is gonna do anything for highsec? 
@Sere_O_Asis Now do you understand why I wrote this person off?
You said in your campaign video you would represent us and not your own opinions.
Mr. Nullsec it appears you spent nearly 7 years in NPC corps.
Cool story about representing the people though. Way to go. You had me fooled.
That’s what I’m doing.
Just because I express a differing opinion here does not mean that I’m not going to represent what players tell me to CCP, even if I disagree with it.
And yes, I spent years in highsec. I’ve spent the last two years logging in every day in nullsec. I made that clear when I was running, too.
Are you honestly going to tell me that I am not entitled to my own opinion?
Level 5 missions do not exist in high sec. They only exist in low sec and there you don’t need a suspect flag to shoot someone.
Level 4 in high sec do not have the same reward ratio as corresponding null sec anomalies. If you want to make running them riskier, pump up the rewards at the same time or else you are going to need a really good fire retardant suit. 
However, I do not see how making level 4 missions riskier is going to make high sec any better. Care to explain?
… and Fountain, Deklein, Tenerifis, Catch, Esoteria, Querious, Period Basis, Impass, Immensea, Tribute, Geminate, Insmother, Detorid, Pure Blind … Have I missed something? When does a caricature turn into a representation of the actual reality for you?
I was talking about Abyssal sites, not PvE missions. I apologize for not being clearer, but since we were only talking about Abyssal sites, I think folks understood my meaning.
That’s all of nullsec? And I can tell you right now that it’s not uniform completely, and at least one of the regions you noted here isn’t covered by a supercap umbrella right now because it’s forward staged.
The first bad sign was that none of the vocal highseccers was answering it. Then I tested the waters with a neutral, elaborate post and got an opposing answer to a irrelevant example I used in the post. Several exchanges later, it turns that it is my fault that he’s trolling us… 
Sure you are. Arguing with people that have genuine concerns about the sour state of high sec doesn’t really endear you to people who make their home there. Look for some kind of consensus and go with that. The topic is about high sec after all. If the sites can be run more safely in null then they aren’t really high sec content are they?
No need to tell people they’re wrong when you can watch people live streaming wormhole and null sec abyssal sites being spammed most of the day in the same systems completely safe. I see them all the time while doing exploration with their caps on site or ready to warp deep in sov null.