They don’t come to these forums.
Probably because they don’t exist outside of your imagination.
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Pretty sure I wouldn’t have put it on my list if it wasn’t popular, dude. I am, after all, a pandering politician.
I’m sure it’s popular. It’s just popular with RMT botters and renter trash. I’m sure, like any good politician, you’d be perfectly happy to give RMT botters a little something if their votes win you the election. I just dispute this claim that reasonable non-botter non-renter trash players are asking for cloaking nerfs in any meaningful numbers.
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This going anywhere productive, or should I start handing warnings out? Not really in the mood to, but I will.
I tagged the remaining CSMers. I’m hoping at least one, maaaaaaybe two more have actually heard of the forums and will respond 
Also: You know you like giving warnings 
We could merge it with the main thread.
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There aren’t enough of them to matter, that’s the point.
Do these people also talk, in a balanced way, about the problem of perfect intel via Local? Do they propose a balancing change to reduce the effectiveness of Local? If not, they are simply lobbying for less risk and more reward.
Yesterday on Twitch the Ecosystem team talked about increasing the value of labour, and yet the MER shows once again that biggest ISK source goes to brainless semi-AFK activity in nullsec. And these lobbyists want to reduce others’ ability to catch them.
Whether they are casuals, AFKs, bots, RMTers, or fine upstanding citizens with Eve’s best interests at heart, they need to have risk for their reward. And the figures suggest they need an awful lot more risk.
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Local is counter by perfect intell you have with eve map.
And yes a lot of people who ask for end of perma clocking ask for people who come from WH are not in local (they don’t take gate). For filament maybe could be interesting to, but filament need a nerf who make they can’t be use from 0.0 (to avoid escape when you start to be the one who is hunt).
And CCP prefer semi afk gameplay, you want a proof ? They nerf super and carrier who are ship you can’t semi afk farm (if you think you could, you have never fly one to farm).
So yes people talk about way to have more gameplay to catch people, but gameplay with a counter, and perma cloacking have no counter actually. (you can bait => it’s not a counter, have friend => remove cyno to all cloacky thing and we could speack of counter they with friend).
I hope that CCP are interested in the long term health of the game. I hope that they will not simply appease players who are stuck in ruts and cry out in pain when disturbed. Because that will simply leave the whole game stagnant, and eventually even those low energy players will get bored and wander off. I am encouraged by recent developments. Long live Eve.
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If they want long term developement they are going in a wrong way.
0.0 is like real environnement, you have predator and you have target. If the target number become to low you loose predator to.
In fact for long term health of the game we need to increase the number of player not reduce it.
And game is not stagnant due to farming, it’s an argument to hide how badly CCP understand his own game mechanics. They have remove all differenciation beetween all 0.0. You don’t need to have a shitons of space now…Just a few. With new drug they reduce the power of drug constellation sor educe importance of war for they.
If CCP want some idea to make eve less stagant i have a lot of idea, and no one include nerf people who want farm to make they unsub. It’s totally counter productive.
Pve player do’nt watn perfect safety. Cloacky camper want perfect safety. Nerf cloack, you will see the game will become a lot more healthier.
I’m pretty sure that isn’t the case. Local is already a perfect intel tool that has no cost and no counter. Nullsec farmers have weaponized it with intel channels and third party tools to the point it kills more content and chance for escalation than anything else in nullsec.
Cloaky campers are only perfectly safe if they do nothing but leave their name in the local chat member list. If they do anything else, you can shoot them. The only thing they can do while cloaked is reduce the reliabilty of your free and all-powerful proximity detector.
Nullsec will not be more healthy if you only remove the only feasible counter to messing with the perfect
intel of local chat. It will be full of even more farmers/botters who only rely solely on evasion for their defence and who will then have even larger effects on ADMs and cause larger damage to the economy. There needs to be more comprehensive reform to nullsec intel sources than to just buff local chat and make it easier to evade everyone.
And this is why we have a dedicate thread for this discussion people. Everytime we look at this we come to the very same conclusion - AFK cloaking isn’t the greatest game play, but is kinda necessary and it will take a few different changes at the same time if you want a better game for everyone. Well, except for the farmer trash who just stamp their feet and demand the game be tilted more in their favour for some unclear reason.
It’s not my place to decide, but I see no reason for this thread to exist. There is a perfectly good one already that CSM members are allowed to post in and can carry on this discussion if there is a need to gather information on the subject.
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I was just answer to argument send by no csm people. And beacause you post argument who are not viable argument i need answer.
LOCAL IS COUNTER BY FREE INTEL OF MAP.
You read my previous sentence ? That all. And read the other poart of my previous post wsill answer to you of other idea to “counter local” without perma cloacking.
And yes i m not a CSM member, but i do’nt care i could post i post. If an ISD come and said to me no you can’t i will stop. Not the case. (and i use the righ of answer beacause no csm people answer with falacious argument or like you quote me… so if an isd come and make you can’t answer to i will stop).
Cloacky camper are pvpbear = They are the more risk averse people in eve.
Ok, fine with me. There should be some intel available to people in nullsec, especially those that have invested in the system. But that shouldn’t be perfect nor free, just like AFK cloaking a systems isn’t perfectly effective nor free.
You are just throwing out insults, not adding to this discussion. Cloaky campers are their to disrupt the PvE activities of another group by interfering with the very powerful strategy of docking up to everything when your perfect proximity detector warns you of danger. But they aren’t generating wealth and distoring our shared economy, or when they are AFK, doing anything at all really. They literally are just leaving their name in a chat channel.
Sigh. Ok, stamp your feet, call the other guy a “bear” if it makes you feel better. I’d prefer you do it in the designated zone, but whatever. CCP hasn’t touched AFK cloaking a well over a decade, and they aren’t going to now, at least not just by giving in to the farmer trash and nerfing cloaking which is used by many player both offensively and defensively way beyond AFK cloakers in nullsec. Maybe with the new ESS structure will come some anti-cloak system or some other larger iteration on nullsec intel? Who knows, but whatever it is, it won’t be just to make it easier for farmers to evade any and all threats to them while still letting them spew resources into our shared economy with no risk.
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Repeating it over and over won’t make it suddenly true.
Now let me riddle You this: how exactly is one source of intel, a “counter” to a perfect sort of intel?
How “free intel of map” allows you to surprise and dictate engagement to someone who has perfect intel on every possible threat to his ship and docks up at first sight of potential danger?
I will tell you how cloacky camping counters that perfect intel tool called “local chat” - it creates false positives in proximity detection. It shows the name - oh noes potential threat - in the chat box. But name that does not in fact pose a threat and sit there for hours and hours and hours again. And that obviously angers risk averse nullbears that would want to farm isk, but are not willing to put their shiny farming boats at a risk.
You want a nerf to afk cloacky camping? very well. But make nullsec local behave like wh local does. There is a reason it was named “null security systems” after all right?
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In WH you do’nt have cyno who make you could insta vaporise opponent with no risk.
In wh you do’nt have predictible way to go
In WH you don’t have metrics who give to all people information you are farming
In Wh you don’t have to farm to increase system security
=> local is counter by all point i quote. You could refuse the evidence. But actually unless we change some of point listed claokcy thing is just not viable in actual ecosystem. It just make people stop game more than create content.
“null security systems” => so why cloack are safe ?
Ho and it(s not beacause you repeat cloack is counter to local it will make it’s true.
instead you have roaming squads that will vaporise you just as fast with even less risk and You won’t even see them coming at all!
unlike cyno - these shits are visible everywhere in the system when they are lit.
(and covert cynos won’t “instavaporise” you)
actually if you spend time learing the wh you are in, places to go becomes quite predictable over time.
It’s still easy to observe if you do.
In wh you don’t have even ability to “increase system security” by any meaningfull way, in the first place. But hey I didn’t see yet any wh dweller to complain about cloaks!
local is unintended perfect intelligence tool. it is not counter to anything, and it’s unintended efficiency is killing the casual conflict within null. And do you maybe know when eve had fastest growth of players? when null was a friggin warzone, not space effectively safer than high sec!
Because they are not. At the very moment they attempt to do anything they are free to attack and kill, and they need to firstly get to and obtain that “safespot” to camp within.
Also with this line of logic You are presenting in here, next logical step is to remove all stations from null as well. Why would anyone deserve safety of being docked up?
I did explain to you how cloak is countering perfect intelligence of local chat
All you do is keep repeating how “local is muh counter to the intelligence of dem map, and live would be to difficult without it”
Also on a side note, You out of everyone in this thread calling out anyone as “risk averse” is extremely ironic. Because what your argumentation boils down to, is that You need your safety. And then pretending you are not as safe as you actually are.
So another riddle, since you ignored the previous one: where is the danger again, when you immediatelly dock up as soon as any non-blue enters the system?
Seeing how You did struggle with previous one, I will make it easier to You: there is none. All of the “dangers” you ever listed in this thread disappear as soon as you take into the account that simple routine. And that is one single biggest source of all modern eve’s economy problems.
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Cloack have no counter => it’s a fact.
Make 66 day with a counter to cloack , like blackout just 66 day and collect data. We will have the answer of what people prefer very fast. And what is the best for the health of the game.
And remove local apparition for people from WH and filament is a nice thing to do if we remove perma cloack(unless they make any interaction with player/structure/NPC/asteroid). So it’s counterable and both side have risk, both side have reward. See i just breack you’re whole argumentation of perma cloack is mandatory and not risk aversse in one paragraph.
perma cloacky people are risk adverse more than pve player.
I don’t know . . . you seem pretty risk averse.
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