EVE is not most PvP games. You have a fundamental misconception about what EVE is supposed to be and how PvP interacts with the rest of the game. There’s a reason why EVE doesn’t have PvP arenas, balanced matchmaking services, etc. PvP is not a contest you engage in for its own sake, it’s a means to an end. You PvP because your goals have put you in conflict with other players and you need to remove the obstacle so you can continue progressing. The reward is clearing the path to those goals, not meaningless stats on a killboard.
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Yes, again, the problem is verification by CCP. Killboards need to go back to the old system, where you could copy/paste a killmail but CCP provided absolutely no verification of the data. As long as you formatted it correctly you could invent kills/losses, edit your killmails to make them look better, etc. CCP should not be in the business of validating third-party dick measuring contests.
Have you not noticed that the alliance tournament is completely separated from everything else in EVE, and doesn’t even exist anymore?
Because it makes PvP focus on K:D stats instead of player-driven conflicts. People are afraid to engage at anything worse than 5:1 odds because they don’t want to risk their K:D stats. Success in EVE should be measured by the empires you build, and it should be 100% acceptable to sacrifice ships on the battlefield to achieve those goals. Killboards encourage risk-averse behavior and remove content, and so killboards should not be supported by CCP.
Andif it does then I expect market data to be removed, jump and NPC kill data too.
Why? Do those things suppress activity or devalue interesting content like killboards do?
But it still blows your claim that EVE has no PvP arenas out of the water.
Not really, because the alliance tournament happens in a special separate piece of the game according to completely different rules. It’s like trying to say that WIS exists in EVE because fanfest is a thing and you can walk around and talk to your fellow players there. In the normal everyday gameplay that all players have access to PvP arenas do not exist.
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Nonsense. Removing accurate killboards absolutely kills off the obsession over K:D ratios. If anyone who wants to can easily flood the killboards with fake killmails and give themselves whatever arbitrary K:D ratio they want or post a dozen fake losses to ruin someone else’s K:D ratio then the obvious conclusion is that people have to stop caring about it. The more accurate you make killboards the more incentive you give to caring about it because the number has more value.
If that’s done, why should the rest of the playerbase still be forced to have their data given away freely.
Because that data is used in entirely different ways and has entirely different effects.
O_o But that’s what you were arguing you were all like “blah blah EVE is different because it doesn’t have different arenas” which not correct. It has a streamed PvP tournament with specific rules for building up fleets.
Had, past tense. And you keep missing the point that the alliance tournament is a rare special occasion thing that is separated from the rest of the game. IOW, it isn’t really EVE just like walking around and having drinks at fanfest isn’t really WIS.
Plenty of people played EVE before accurate killboards were a thing, plenty of people will continue playing in their absence. And the sort of person who ragequits over the loss of their dick-measuring contest doesn’t belong in EVE anyway.
The primary arguments seems to be as follows:
Assumed premises:
- Accurate/meaningful kill data will improve PvP
- More PvP is desirable
- Kill data is not accurate/meaningful because it is incomplete.
Conclusion:
Kill mails should all be made public so that it is complete
Setting aside 1 and 2, since they’re mostly opinion or speculative, the 3rd premise, that making all killmails public will make it accurate and meaningful, is the most dubious.
Suppose that kill data does become entirely public, and also suppose that people believe it to be meaningful. How long do you suppose it would be before someone started to ‘sell’ leaderboard points? Through the use of isk, bribes and alts, it is easily feasible to generate just about any kind of kill mail you would want.
Furthermore, you would be able to sell out a corporation or alliance’s killstats if you happened to be a part of their organization at the time. This is the kind of enterprise I expect out of capsuleers. With every new feature comes new and unintended ways of exploiting it. To expect any different of this feature would be hubris.
Once word got out of people manipulating the killboards with ‘real’ killmails, the relative value of them to capsuleers would return to present levels after a brief spike while people are ignorant of tampering that would likely take place.
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You know who as pvp leaderboards?
WoW.
Just saying. Azeroth is that way —>
I think its maybe matured.
I believe Qia, this is an example of someone who has already attempted what you are trying to describe:
In any event, if it is not exactly what you’re describing it is close enough to give credence to your words.
As if the EvE player base did ever want what you’re asking for…
This has nothing to do with players having become PvErs or being opposed to anything that increases PvP. It’s you having a misconception of what PvP is about in EvE and making wrong assumptions about it as a result. Get that already.
Stop building straw men. We should encourage people to interact, but your suggestion is not a good way of doing so.
Accurate leaderboards would give people who enjoy leaderboard competition another reason to stay and engage in PvP.
And? Not everyone is the kind of person that belongs in EVE. If you want inane dick-measuring contests then EVE is not the game for you. That sort of PvP is not what EVE is about, and it should not be encouraged.
Did you throw your toys on the floor when they restricted wars to only corporations with structures in space?
I did in fact oppose that change and I still think it was a terrible idea. But note the key difference: allowing corps to declare war without structures being involved increases the scope of conflict, not just killmails. The PvP involved is still happening in the context of player groups using PvP as a means to achieve a desired goal within the game. Leaderboards/killmails/etc just encourage mindless context-free PvP where there is no greater purpose or reason for that PvP to exist.
I am not disputing that it would encourage a certain type of person to engage more, but that sort of person and engagement is not good for the game and the costs elsewhere more than outweigh the minimal benefits.
This is by far the dumbest thing said so far. The vast majority of EVE is people dick-measuring, and that’s not a factor by which people’s eligibility to play EVE is considered. Activity with other players often is.
No, you just don’t understand EVE. Killing someone to win a war against a rival corporation and take their space is not just a dick-measuring contest, it’s PvP as a means to an end. Killing someone purely so your killboard stats get better is nothing but dick measuring.
Since when?
Since the day EVE was created. PvP was something you did to achieve a goal and no record of your kills or losses existed. There was no point in engaging in dick-measuring contests because nobody could provide a ruler to measure with. And yet somehow EVE still worked just fine.
Where?
Go find the posts yourself. I’m not digging through old threads to prove that I said something consistent with my clearly stated current position that the war change was a terrible idea.
Apparently you’ve never seen old wardec groups. It was 100% about killboard stats. The mass wardec groups were not aiming to get anything except or juicy kills out of wars, and to be clear, I think that was a totally fine goal. I did think that another tier of non-wardec corp was required, but not with the full benefits that a normal player-run corp has, which is what we’re seeing now.
Oh look, another argument for removing killboards.
People already are.
killmails should be private - all of them.
the biggest content killer in eve is the public kill mail.
lol
you made a thread, demanding ccp force zkill to make all killmails public
again
lol
for most people who have been playing eve for more than a couple of months the loss of a ship is not a major blow but a stain on their kill board is. This gets even worse when you extend it past the individuals to the practice of alliances and corps kicking people for falling not into isk negative but not isk positive enough.
fights that could be fun are avoided in favor of guaranteed wins.
Er, aslong as those doing the killing have theirs public, it is what it is
Why would this even bother u?
Like i cannot see why this would bother anyone?
Killboards are dumb anyway
No I get that but tbh, we mostly pve but we do have pvp pirate alts n we dont care about killboards, people care to much about killboards
We are playing the same game correct?
Are in no way effected. Removing the kill mail api is not the same as removing kill mails