Dev blog: CSM Winter Summit Minutes & changes to election process


(Arya Alderian) #21

(mkint) #22

Wrote a long post, changed my mind. A shorter post should carry more weight.

The last time I’ve gotten the impression the devs were this depressed was post-incarna. I think as a company, you’ve lost touch with your audience. I think it’s time for a company-wide virtual field trip. Log in your CCP characters and explore your game. Figure out why it is you do what you do.


(Ivory Harcourt) #23

We have career agents for it, which were supposed to be replaced with somehting else (I hope that#s not Agency).


(Ivory Harcourt) #24

I think this time devs are depressed because of something completely different and that’s a detachment of management from the game itself. I.e. it’s not devs fault, it’s their bosses’ fault.


(Yiole Gionglao) #25

After reading the PvE section of the minutes, I have the impression that it’s a surreal joke.

How come nobody CSM or CCP has noticed that all the content they discussed is universally considered a piece of bovine excrement by the people who should be running it?

How can people discussing PvE in EVE be so disconnected from reality?


(Jeremiah Saken) #26

Whole summit seems like surreal joke. This the worst minutes I read about EvE. Is there someone in charge or you just drifiting? Guys it looks really bad. Citadels and sov are taking so much of developers hours that you don’t have a time to balance HACs you promised last summer? For real? I don’t even comment scrapping RW. What’s to comment? You never even tried to make them better now you just deleted them? This is development process?


(Jeremiah Saken) #27

“Team Phenomenon explains that they make tools for other teams to use, as well as deploying features in the game. Even though the feature itself may not have hit the mark, the tools which were developed in the process add value to other mechanics and are the main priority for the team. CSM want this to be communicated to the player base.”

what are those tools? Examples of use?

There are however plans to add new AI to new mechanics in the game.

You are obsessed with new AI. What is the purpose of adding new AI content nobody will do unless you replace current mechanism with it.


(Yiole Gionglao) #28

“What is the purpose of adding new AI content nobody will do unless you replace current mechanism with it.”

Not really. It should be: What is the purpose of adding new AI content nobody will do even if they replace current mechanics with it.


(CCP Guard) #29

I think this boils down to…“there’s a time and place for everything”.

Maybe this would work for some branches of a possible NPE but our designers don’t see a place to slot it into our current plans.

It is true though that learning how to die is important which is why it’s been included in the NPE…although in a less Colosseum way :slight_smile:

We do a lot of research into player behavior and preferred playstyles and people are quite different. There’s a silent majority of players which has somewhat different priorities to the social part of the community (simplified breakdown alert) and we have to make sure to take care of everyone as much as we can.


(CCP Guard) #30

Communication is key. It can solve problems on its own in some cases even…and lack of it can create problems as well. If you or anyone reading ever feels anything needs clarification please hunt us down on Twitter or wherever and poke us, it’s as helpful to us as it is to you.


(Arrendis) #31

That’s exactly what’s currently replacing them.


(Arrendis) #32

Oh yeah, totally get that. The majority of the players in any MMO aren’t directly engaged with the game’s larger community. They’ve got their 5-10 friends, if that, and just want to keep their heads down and get on with the way they play the game.

Unfortunately, that can make communication difficult—they aren’t usually the people checking devblogs or The Scope, or reading the forums. It’s one of the reasons a few people have suggested, over the last few years, a way to bring that kind of information into the client. Like having the Scope videos available to post on the billboards through the neocomm maybe.


(CCP Guard) #33

HACs will get their turn soon.

This post is interesting because it brings up two features, one of which is getting lots of iteration as promised, and the other is likely not.

Resource wars was a targeted attempt at filling a crack. Players didn’t like it nearly enough (as numbers show) and it didn’t fill the crack. There’s been a discussion internally and at the summit about being efficient and pulling the plug on things that don’t have a purpose to our players.

The good news is that in building Resource Wars we learned some lessons and developed tech we can use for other features in the future.

Structures are widely used and integral to all kinds of activities so there’s a clear reason to spend time on them, as strongly advised by the CSM in the second summit of 2017.


(Arrendis) #34

One of the reasons RW wasn’t used is that the amount of training time needed to be effective above the L2 sites is pretty significant, and the payouts didn’t seem to scale that well with them. In addition, the rewards through the LP store sort of pushed people into doing non-RW content. You’d get the LP for the items you needed, but wouldn’t have anywhere near the ISK needed… so you’d need to go do other things that pay better ISK.

Then, once you’re making better ISK… you really don’t need the thing you were going to get from the LP store. Though, now I feel like I need to run RW sites this weekend to pick up the SKINs and buy a few dozen of each of the jackets, just to sell them off for 250M in six months. Before I do that, any plans to make the cosmetic items (the untradeable SKINs and the clothing) in the RW LP stores available through other means?

Not just asking because I don’t wanna invest if they’re gonna be cheap, either. :wink:


(CCP Guard) #35

Absolutely :). That’s something we’re working to do more of in the future.

Funny story, I sat next to an EVE player on a plane from EVE Down Under in Australia. Only in the last hour of the 15 hour flight did we start talking and find out that we had EVE in common. I’m used to meeting players who recognize me off the bat, from Fanfest, office visits, player gatherings around the world etc.
But there really is a big chunk of players that, like you say, literally never read dev blogs, watch videos or interact with the community on social media. We do a bunch of survey work and data analysis to figure out what they like because they’re hugely important to us all. But the vocal community also has all the people that drive large scale game play and push the game to be what it is so it’s not like you can perfectly equate 1 survey response against 1 passionately argued opinion from an alliance leader for example.


(CCP Guard) #36

I honestly have no knowledge about the plans there :smiley:


(Arrendis) #37

Yup. And among the people who’re plugged into outlets like these forums, you’ll mostly hear from the people who are unhappy… because after all, the folks who are getting what they like don’t have any reason to lobby for changes.

The status quo never gets any love, until something breaks, and then it’s all ‘don’t know what you’ve got til it’s gone’.

Well, pass along the suggestion, please? If the clothing, especially, becomes completely unavailable, it’s going to frustrate folks who see it in the market listings as something to look for, but never shows up… kind of like how the Women’s SOE ‘Gunner’ (I think?) jacket sits there, taunting all of us Logi pilots with the promise of actually looking like a medic, but the 100 or so people who have them will never, ever sell.


(gnshadowninja) #38

With regards to wars, how will suggestions and talks go about this and how can our community get a voice?

I might be mistaken but I don’t see anyone who is able to represent us, this is obvious by the suggestions that war decs should only be allowed if a corp/alliance has structures as this would completely destroy mercenary gameplay.


(Makshima Shogo) #39

I don’t see why elite players should be harassing new guys, when I started playing in 2007 me and RL friends started a simple corp did some mining missioning for about 2 week’s, trying to get used to the game and wam out of no where some elite group war decks us and camps us into the station for week’s, my RL friends got sick of the game and left, I took a 2 week break while letting my skills train while the ass hats got board and left. If this change had been there back in the day, my friends might still be playing now :confused: So yea i’m very for this change as I see it as a way to help keep newer player’s away from the scum of eve who pick on the beginners.


(gnshadowninja) #41

As part of the merc community I am sorry to hear this, please note that we don’t go out of our way to target newbros and we always explain war dec mechanics to players who don’t understand, we also offer advice, fitting advice and much more if approached by people we have killed as we hope it may push them to fight back.