Dev Blog: October Balance Pass!


(Arrendis) #1461

That’d work, too, yeah.

(Solecist Project) #1462

I laughed! :smiley:

(Teckos Pech) #1463

Sure and how much ISK did PL make when they sold off their rental empire in the drone regions? Those regions rake in anywhere from 5-6 trillion ISK a month. Even if rents are at say 10%, which is pretty low, then that means that rental empire brings in .5-.6 trillion extra ISK/month. And if you sold that you’d sell it for something like 8 to 10 trillion ISK depending on the discount factor and how long one anticipates holding that space. And how much does BOPE earn each month running that rental empire?

And your data for this is?

See this is the problem with trying to draw certain conclusions from aggregated data. We see the regional statistics from the MERs. We don’t have, IMO, reliable data below that level. Are the better regions in Querious controlled by Goons? Sure. But is that only where the ratting takes place? No. So you take all the bounty ISK and attribute it to Goons. That’s ■■■■■■■■. Pure ■■■■■■■■. You can argue my method of adding up all the pilots and all the bounties and dividing the former into the latter is biased, but so is your method. In fact, it is likely worse.

I don’t expect you see this point. The finer aspects of data analysis and statistics appear to be lost on you in this discussion as you just can’t seem to relinquish your belief that Goons are bad. You actually remind me of myself. When I first went to NS I was in the GBC and drank deep from the Koolaid. I eventually got beyond that blinkered belief. I don’t look at either side a “bad for the game” like you do. I don’t expect you to believe this either…you are too mired in your tribalism.

Which is why it is idiotic…

Yes, I am not terribly thrilled about them either.

You shouldn’t. People will take you less seriously and just simply dismiss you are a someone who has little of value to contribute…which you do. You come as a knee-jerk whiner far too often.

You keep wanting to insist there is a problem with Goons and the MERs. But when one stops to consider that Goons have jamed a huge number of pilots into a small number of systems relative to most of the rest of New Eden NS it becomes far, far less clear. If we were to look at ratting ISK for Goons and include the number of ratters and do the same for other alliances, and look at say an average ISK/pilot we could then see if there is a problem. Looking at the limited/aggregated data we have right now the answer looks like there isn’t nearly the problem you claim…despite your histrionics.

Bottom line your complaints about Goons and ISK and Delve are based on looking at aggregated data and doing really nothing with it. You see a really large number in a chart and panic. You do not stop to consider that that measure is not really all the precise or informative. How many ratters (or miners) lead to that number. That is really the key question and Goons are one of the largest groups in game.

(Lester oftheWeevils) #1464

Reeeeallly disappointed you guys are boning small WH corps… As a guy living in a WH in a small corp, you’re basically making train my alt up ( I dislike multiple account playing, so I do it as little as possible. Feels dishonest.) to be a suicide wh closer… Which is a HUGE pain in the ass, because then I have to get him back into the hole if the next WH is just as angry/empty as the last one. Doing this by myself with a megathron/phobos combo takes about 10-25 minutes a hole… Add this in, you can blast that up into the hours for a single hole…

Collateral damage? You guys are going to make this become a collateral game for me.

(Othello Warspite) #1465

At this point, is the irony lost on anyone that 10 CSM members can only find one “solution” to a problem, and Arrendis has identified far more?

One begins to think that perhaps the flaws in the existing “solution” from the CSM are not bugs, but features.

(Arrendis) #1466

They’ve changed course as a result of player feedback. Relax.

(Arrendis) #1467

To be fair, the CSM may have come up with these ideas, too, and got shot down. They’re under NDA, they really can’t tell us a whole lot.

(Othello Warspite) #1468

You can simply contrast the CSM statement on Imperium news with CCP’s own statements and see who was driving this set of changes, though. CSM is talking about an end goal, CCP is talking about data to inform future decisions. Clear as day, IMO

(Teckos Pech) #1469

Sheesh…CCP really does work hard at keeping information hidden in those MERs.

(Unseen Spectre) #1470

Just read the devblog about the October changes and I have to say that the changes that are being applied to ECM are a straight nerf – there is no other way to put.

I am not at all a specialist in any way when it comes to ECM, not at all, but I think this will make the ECM ships more or less useless at least when used by a single player in 1 vs. X situations since the ECM offers no value for the jamming ship in this situation.

CCP states that they are looking at some small buffs to the ECM ships, but I guess that the buffs should be pretty significant to balance the nerf.

They could level the playing field by applying the same change to e.g. sensor dampeners and tracking disruptors, but that is not likely to happen.

To reduce the impact of the ECM change I think possible options could be to:

  • Put a secondary effect on the jammed ship with respect to the jamming ship. First I think that the jammer should break the lock of the jammed ship when jammed the first time and then maybe the signature radius on the jamming ship could be significantly reduced with respect to the jammed ship. Alternatively it could break the lock (100% chance) once per cycle and then the jammed ship could re-lock the jamming ship afterwards without blocking locking once jammed as per current function. I guess this could be balance via the jammer cycle time.

  • The jammers could be made scriptable so that jammers would affect jammed ship with respect to the jammed ship, but the jammed ship could target anyone else (or create a new type of jammer that could do this). This will also require more jammers to do the same thing s as the jammers do today and make ECM ships usable by 1 vs. X situations. I think this may have been mentioned elsewhere in the thread.

  • Invent a second type of ewar for the Caldari. ECM was probably more powerful than the other factions ewar which is why I guess they only have one type. The change mentioned in the devblog removes this advantage, so in order to bring the Caldari on par with the other factions in terms of ewar. I think this may have been mentioned elsewhere in the thread.

A solution to ECM need not be either/or but could be a combination.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts.

(Fluffy Moe) #1471

Horrible change for interceptors, as others have stated, it removes a lot of fun gameplay from the game while making delve even safer.

ECM is poorly thought out, it might as well be dead in 1 vs 1, almost dead in small scale and only safe to use in large scale where you can hide in zerg.

WTG another fkn null sec goon patch.

The Trig ships, the Vedmak is actually quite underwhelming outside of flying with logi or other fleet support, the demavik is quite a bit screwed, it doesn’t need a moved slot, it needs an extra one. Only the leshak is good.

(Scooter6976) #1472


after a teeny bit of digging, it seems some don’t like the effect of griffins flying around jamming entosis ships endlessly. well, as id mentioned before, there are other ways to address the niche problems that may arise from certain gameplay scenarios. I think the most obvious would be to adjust the optimal range of the various ecm ship hulls. frigs<cruisers<bs. or adjust the hull bonus a lil. or the base strength of the mod, if that was Really the issue at hand.

hmmm, mayb its fozziesov that sucks and Not ALL 4 inty’s Need getting nerfed, or the entirety of ecm functionality getting derped. just saying.

(Scooter6976) #1473

same. its called cheese chasing. on the upside, if you’ve been playing long enough, you can already fly all the things, so it doesn’t Really matter what they F up; as the meta shifts. you sell the old garbage at a loss, and buy the new garbage at a bigger loss. rinse repeat. its become common place with every ‘balance’ pass. its more the timing, and how long broken things are allowed to continue, that is frustrating. best thing you can do is just Not sell your things as ccp breaks them. just hold them, they will be back in vogue ‘soon’. nothing well enough is ever left alone. ime

(Old Pervert) #1474

…you do realize that you can just fly a crow instead of a raptor? No additional training needed?

(Giddy McFee) #1475

OK, sorry if this is a dumb question. With the ECM change you will be able to lock the ship that is jamming you? Does this mean that you can lock but not fire/set drones upon?

If you can fire, then what is the point of ECM?

(Scooter6976) #1476

id like to add, we still don’t know anything about this ‘new’ module they have said they would rush for the October release. as is, its a very Real possibility that wh’ers will lose the ability to send a HIC through a frig hole at all. this will benefit anyone on the otherside of a frig hole that doesn’t want a HIC on their backside - surprise style. its something that isn’t being discussed much.

(Lester oftheWeevils) #1477


(Scooter6976) #1478

they Really want to remove inty nullification ENTIRELY. adapting in this case is the catch .22 they are counting on in order to justify complete removal. its destructive of the entire interceptor class imo, just step by step. id say its ironic since they added the nullification and nerfed the class in exchange way back. now by removing it, the end result is just an overall nerf realized. bait. switch. bait again. switch…its not change for the better imo.

(Sakura Hoshizora) #1479

There is no point to ECM anymore in the game.

ECM ships are now useless, and the modules too.

(Scooter6976) #1480

sounds like pvp in eve tbh. nobody wants to lose a fight. everyone stacks the deck in the their favor. duh. if you want to counter the threat of inty fleets pooping on your day, then use the counters to that ship class, be smart, fly safe. or don’t. your upset about mosquitos. well, everyone is when they are getting bit. the mosquito tho; he’s just trying to stay alive in a world of giants. but yea, mosquitos are op.

btw, gm arrendis. feeling better today?