If you think that this change makes ECM useless, then you’re one who doesn’t get it.
People are still going to use ECM drones. Small gangs are still going to bring ECM ships. BLOPs will still bring ECM ships (although I recognize the Widow needs a defense buff now), larger fleets will still use ECM to jam out logi. There are still plenty of existing applications where ECM is important that won’t change at all, other than the one ship being jammed has a chance to fight back in a way they didn’t before. That’s a good thing.
sorry just disagree, the rook is entirely pointless as a ship post this change - all of its weapon systems are relatively short range and that means being pretty close to the opponent which if you use up midslots with ECM modules that basically do nothing in a small gang fight, because everyone you jam and can still shoot you there really isnt any point fitting them at all is there? I do feel that this change to ECM has overlooked:
this ship specifically (effectively caldari combar recon = -1
anyone who doesnt fly in 100+ man gangs, yes this change might seem perfectly reasonable in large scale fights, but in small scale it completely removes the validity of using it at all.
the other classes of ships that use ECM effectively need to be long range or again, death is very likely, but at least some of these, falcon / scorp can attempt that the rook really cant.
I dont really know much about CSM but at least you can be bothered replying to this forum thread unlike any devs from CCP, so whether i agree with you or not, i for one certainly appreciate the replies.
cmon man, AFTER patch if you fly a rook solo (as I do) , you should just fly a different ship because 1 vs 1 ecm is now an irrelevant module, as it will have 0 impact on your target, the number of low slots and bonuses rooks get to dps / tank are also poor / non-existant so the only reason to fly it will be to avoid being seen on dscan (which as engaging solo would be quite foolish, you may as well just fly a falcon and just cloak up instead).
still some applications that ARE useful in larger fleets, ECM is totally irrelevant for the small gang / solo player if this goes ahead, and I really cant help but feel that this change has just forgotten about those players.
A minor tweak would be making ECM scripted so it either jams at half range, or lock breaks at longe range. There’s an awful lot of people here who don’t think the proposed change is minor.
Also, are we getting rid of scrams too? A scrammed hauler has sod all agency if they didn’t fit WCS.
Nobody is suggesting it be fair. What folks are suggesting is that it be fun. There is nothing fun about being locked down by your opponent with no meaningful counter at the moment the jam hits.
And regardless of how loudly anybody yells, this is a minor tweak.
Then do that - the meta changes all the time. The ships you fly will likely change all the time as well. Ships get balanced, things get buffed, things change. My favorite ship is the Raven and I had a period where it was awesome and everybody used it, and then years when it was useless for anything but ratting for noobs.
Now it’s good again and has a role in the meta.
Things change. Don’t be afraid to change up the ship you’re using to do something similar to what you used to do if what you used to do isn’t effective anymore.
That’s not a combat ship - if a hauler can’t get away, it’s going to die. It has ways to get away - MWD/cloak, ECM burst, etc. The comparisons aren’t the same.
It’s still relevant in small gang. Maybe the guy in the ECM ship dies more often than he used to, but in a small gang if those jams land, you’re still dead. You can’t target anybody hitting you but the ECM ship, and you’re gonna melt.
One vs. one is the biggest impact, yes, but I’m confident that EVE players, as we always do, will adapt and find some other way to do what they want do in that regard. And the folks on the losing side of the ECM roll will have more to do than just throw up their hands and ■■■■■ about ECM.
shouldnt they do that before they patch it? So everyone is quite happy knowingly making a ship (that I and I assume some others) like flying, which after this patch will be totally unusable for small gang / solo pvp and we have to wait for a dev to fix it later? You must surely appreciate how broken that is as a process? Releasing something that YOU ALL KNOW breaks a ship, and you wont fix it till later?
I fly lots of ships, i dont understand why ships are available to fly, which are completely irrelevant and have no useful application in ANY fleet, I also dont understand why you are comparing the Rook to the Raven, the Raven has not had one of its core functions completely neutralized.
“One vs. one is the biggest impact, yes, but I’m confident that EVE players, as we always do, will adapt and find some other way to do what they want do in that regard. And the folks on the losing side of the ECM roll will have more to do than just throw up their hands and bitch about ECM”
-> adapt = fly a different ship, because they aint flying a rook anymore.
I just dont think these changes have been fully thought through and indeed your own responses show that (balance passes for affected ships AFTER the patch as an example).
You guys are forgetting that they said they’re gonna buff the ships other stats. Could be looking at a 1kdps rook in the future or a 7.5% shield boost bonus who knows
I dont agree with you on your belief that this is a minor tweak. this is a major tweak and a nerf to subcap vs cap. You keep going on about how ecm isnt fun, but do you think small gangs/corps/solo roamers are having fun every time a carrier/super is dropped???
Which brings me back to this question. Do you think ECM being changed from Lock Denier to just lock BREAKING be a better change. If targeted ECM was like ECM burst but on a shorter cycle between 10-17 secs, would you find this viable???
Year, you are right.
Who knows what CCP or their new master will do to revamp the Rook, Widow , Falcon and more, which are according to the now known informations compleete senseless.
Same with my major concern about the StandUp-ECM, that is the only mid-slot modul with a usefull purpose [see Post 2 @CCP_Falcon Does the jamming changes apply to upwell structures? It seems to defeat the purpose of jamming a DPS ship from attacking your structure, if they can still target it].
Sadly we will never get a proper answer.
The problem [imho] is they have no plan, otherwise there would be some anouncements like the HIC-issue.
But in their endless wisdom CCP send us a Goons-Troll.
See the post of Tipa Riot [1860], no further comment about this guy nessesary.
and how do you want to achieve that? It’s FUBAR already. Huge incomes made SP trading easy, SP trading made supers available and rate not known before, how do you compete with that as a contender for NS player? You will remove supers pilots from the game? As always you don’t comprehend the scale of the problem. Removing nullification will impact in fortifying NS at it’s borders and droping supers on everybody fall into their anchored bubbles. Trench war with obvious benefits for the defender. Thats why if you want removing nullification, because it’s powerfull, anchored bubbles should be removed too because game will reach inbalance in nullification mechanism. Bubbling gate should be active mechanism, with all ISK incoming anchor bubbles are easy replaceable.
MER shows terrible NS economy, cancerous to all game, nothing can stop ISK flow now and it was created for the purpose that way, famous Seagull’s “control of the space”. What do you propose?
Skill injecting and extracting should be reworked. Instead of instant sp it should be triple(or something) learning speed for 500k worth of sp. Instant is too much and bots are just injecting new pilots.