BTW you can reverse engineer the bots, market and others. Sometimes helps defeat botters.
HmmmmmâŚdo we report someone for something they are doing which is undeniably against the rules/eula/policies or whatever only to hear CCP state again that is within âgameplayâ or do we just ignore it? That is the question.
For so many years, CCP has run this game as if it was their own little sandbox and the rules have been whatever the rules are whatever CCP says they are for today and maybe tomorrow the rules will be interpreted a different way and you and I the customer can just shut up and stay and play or leave.
Donât even make me bring up all of the times when CCP said that the rules mean âthisâ only to ignore the rules on âthatâ even when it was proven the issue was the same thing and same situation but some are banned and others not.
I am not reporting anyone no matter what I see. CCP? if you would like to pay for the information you want, we can come to a legally binding agreement I am sure. Until then? Police everyone yourselves.
this would be my resolution to the isk issue in game
Iâm hesitant to bring this up because CCP has gone ban crazy. Had a corp mate get banned for account sharing because he logged in at home and at work. Got it cleared up, but he couldnât login for weeks because once you open a support ticket with CCP they disappear. I have one thatâs been open for almost a week and the GM disappeared mid-conversation and wonât respond. I opened an additional ticket, and still nothing. Iâm about ready to cancel all (4) of my monthly subs before they charge me for another damn month, since Iâm not getting full access like Iâm paying for. Iâm going to take a chance and throw out this info for the community, Iâm not too worried since Iâve already been punished.
I got banned for bot mining back in 2012-2013. It was a (30) day ban on all (3) accounts (even the one that I wasnât botting with), and a (12) billion isk fine. The rest of my botting corp (IRL friends) quit, infuriated that CCP would bust us. I stupidly had asked my friends when we started botting if it was against the rules, they said no I moved forward. Before the trolls start in, several MMOâs have allowed macros. Ultima Online allowed macros as long as it was their macro software you used. I wasnât upset with the ban or the fine since we were actually breaking the rules, and did my time and havenât botted since. I did do the research after the ban and found out that (at the time) CCP policy was (30) day ban, (12) billion isk fine, and after a total of (12) (30) day bans you got a perma-ban.
I noticed that no one has mentioned any figures, so here is what I estimate. Know that I was dual botting in a super blinged out Mackinaw with maxed skills and implants on both toons. For 3-4 months, I ran 23 hours a day - 7 days a week with little exception. I occasionally had to leave for work if the server was late coming back up or would occasionally come home to find my bot trying to mine the space station or something odd. Itâs hard to tell what my total was, but I estimate it at around 60 billion isk over that 3-4 months.
I have since gutted Hex here since you canât make good money solo mining, sold everything and spent weeks emptying his 75 million skill points. And just a heads up, I just got the update email from tinyminer and they have updated to the most recent update, so expect a whole new surge of botters.
Also, you can clear a lot of bots by simply typing âbotâ into local. In a few weeks try it and watch how many people dock and log out. There is a box you can check in tinyminer that it will check for that and dock/log if it catches key phrases. But the absolute best way to stop botters is to bump them out to no where and kill and pod them. Wonât stop them, but cuts into their profits by re-chipping and re-fitting, but more importantly they are doing that instead of mining.
Hex,
I appreciate the bravery in admitting something like that in public. Glad to see you learned that botting was never permitted despite what your corp mates told you.
As for other MMOs allowing macros, it doesnât matter what they allow. Just because they allowed it doesnât mean itâs allowed in Eve Online. Thatâs why itâs often encouraged to read up on the EULA and Terms of Services on any new game you play especially if itâs an MMO.
In regards to Macros, CCP has made it abundantly clear that any macros that enable a player to achieve a set of tasks at a rate that is not otherwise achievable with just a human behind those tasks is considered illegal.
An archived forum post by CCP Falcon explained it very well.
Of course itâs old (dating back to 2014) but the rules at the time are still relevant and I have not seen CCP change their stance on multibroadcasting, multiplexing or input automation recently.
Input Automation
Input Automation refers to actions that are commonly also referred to as botting or macroing. This term is used to describe, but is not limited to, the automation of actions which have consequences in the EVE universe.
Input Automation remains strictly prohibited, and is policed under our suspension and ban policy.
This generally refers to, but not limited to, the following:
⢠Activation and control of ships and modules
⢠Navigation and movement within the EVE universe
⢠Movement of assets and items within the EVE universe
⢠Interaction with other characters
However, CCP doesnât punish for using the macros in the following manner.
Examples of allowed Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing are actions taken that do not have an impact on the EVE universe and are carried out for convenience:
⢠EVE Online client settings
⢠Window positions and arrangements (of the EVE Online client in your operating systemâs desktop environment)
⢠The login process
As for clearing out the bots, destroying them is resource intensive. However, bumping them is not. Thatâs why bumping is a popular option because it doesnât cause them to lose a ship. However, that might prove to be a moot point in the future with the advent of NPC miners clearing out the belts quite often which cuts into the profits of bot miners. On top of that, the Forward Operating Base NPC ships that come in as a fleet are far more aggressive than the regular belt rat and can easily destroy even a tanked mining ship. I almost lost my tank-fitted Orca with these things. Imagine how that will impact the bot miners if these nasty things become more common and more aggressive.
But to me, the best way to deal with bot miners is to overhaul the mining interaction. My idea is that at random times at the end of the mining cycle of the module (mining laser or strip miner) the module will turn off (even if set to repeat) and bring up a UI on the rock you were mining asking to be recalibrated. It could work the same was as the Planetary Interaction UI where you have to rotate the image of the rock to find the next spot because the miner hit a dead spot that (lore wise) interrupted the module for some reason. Once you have it recalibrated it would continue mining and continue repeating the cycle until another dead spot interrupts it. It doesnât have to be often. Considering how fast these rocks disappear during mining, perhaps a few rocks would have maybe 1 or 2 dead spots depending on size. So unless the bot mining programmer intends to implement some heavy (and very expensive) artificial intelligence into the code, bot mining would not be feasible this way. What do you think?
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Yeah, like I said, I researched it but not till after the fact and I know what applies to one game certainly doesnât to another. Iâm not upset about not being able to bot at all and have been active for most of the time since then. And Iâm not worried about any repercussions, Hex sits in Jita and doesnât undock since I gutted him. And Iâm not anti-mining at all, really enjoyed it. Just no money in it. Even with high-sec moon mining, the investment vs profit is way too off.
Your suggestion is a good one, but I donât think itâll work. The way the bot program works is you set your screen up to the exact specifications, (took a few hours and then some tweaking over the next few days). You start the program and the mouse goes to the programmed points and clicks. They would just add your part into the process. The way it used to be set up was to run a half cycle on the mining laser un-locks your target and then it re-targets the next closest asteroid in your overview. They would just have it check each time it re-locks a target. It re-locks the target so that it will move to the next asteroid if you depleted that one. And what about AFK mining?
I think a good way to stop botters would be for CCP to get ahold of a version (it was like $10), figure out the exact screen setup and if you get reported for botting and your screen looks like that = ban. Also, everything is timed on that program. Check the inputs into the system and see if the clicks are exact down to the same millisecond every time = good chance itâs a botter. Or a super human⌠
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Iâm very curious if they can even achieve that. Especially if the code has to compensate for a near-limitless number of variations of how the asteroidâs Ore is distributed throughout the rock. Kind of like how in Planetary Interaction you canât find two planets with the exact same distribution of P1 materials even if they are the same planet type. Can they even program a bot to manually click and drag the 3D representation of the asteroid being targeted until it sees the hotspots?
Assuming that is not a challenge for a bot, what do you think of the alternative I mentioned regarding those powerful NPC fleets that emerge in the system whenever there is a Pirate Factionâs Forward Operating Base nearby? What about the NPC miners that seem to eat away at the local asteroid belts, often times targeting the same rocks you and I are mining?
CCP could also use any information they have on the bot program and deploy an NPC fleet with the specific purpose of targeting all of the bot miners that CCP has confirmed. They can use Concord as one such NPC fleet. Of course, CCP would have to be absolutely sure that what they are targeting ARE bot miners and not someone who is just suspected. But Iâll leave it up to CCP to decide.
With my (extremely) limited coding knowledge I would think you could work in a color recognition patch or work out a venn diagram type pattern with the scheduled mouse clicks. I like the NPC fleet idea, I like any idea that ends with an explosion really. But I would worry about afk miners and low skill miners that couldnât/wouldnât survive if they were attacked.
Haters gonna hate. Cheaters gonna cheat. And some will always rise to the top because $@!% floats. Itâs human nature and you see it in every facet of life. We could speculate till the end days but CCP is the only one who can do anything about it. I just got sucked into reading while looking for another topic and noticed no one had mentioned a figure about how much botters made. Iâve been playing MMOâs since Ultima released in 1997 and Eve seems to have one of the best communities Iâve run across. People are usually why I keep coming back to it, that and the spreadsheets.
For the AFK miners, I donât think I can come up with anything that can address that problem. If they get caught with their pants down mining ice by such a fleet, theyâre boned.
But for the low-skilled ones, I would sympathize. They donât have what it takes yet to confront these fleets run by powerful AI that learns your moves over time. So I donât know how to address that either.
EDIT:
I feel ya. My first MMO was Guild Wars. I was planning on eventually trying out The Matrix Online but we all know how that died. I was about to try out World of Warcraft but later heard of Eve Online and was more fascinated by science fiction than by fantasy and the rest is history.
CCP does ban you if you do things fast enough or if you get reported by enough people. KunâMi has been banned once for multiboxing bombers faster than the average mouthbreathing nullsec F1 monkey, so the fleet commander ordered the fleet to mass report KunâMi. Falcon and Peligro refuse to admit anything wrong happened.
Wasnt there a discussion about the leader of Pirat? As i remember he was cought having 10 automated ratting Supercarriers. He is still ingame with all of his alts!
Lol hes still ingame?
Yes he isâŚ
I know them pretty well as Iam the only one who is active fighting Pirat,Vmg and their friends. And CCP its hard to compete with unlimited botting funds.
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Remember kiddies, donât help anyone online or in a forum, you might get slapped with a ban just for talking!
Security locked up my account and wonât even respond to my emails but keep charging me, so I just canceled all (4) of my Omega subs. Guess CCP have started taking the âTrumpâ approach - Fake-Customer Support.
Like it or not, I cheated. I didnât realize I was and stopped as soon as I was made aware. Also, like it or not, I did my time (30 day ban), I paid my fines (12b). That was the punishment at the time and I paid the price. And no worries CCP (seriously not a threat), Iâm going to take the high road and not post links all over the internet to download my copy of the Tiny Miner bot program. Latest update email from them was on 3/3/18.
Bye Eve, I loved you dearly. I have never thought more frequently or fondly or returned more times to any other MMO. Iâm sorry your masters have become inept. God, I wish this was a single player game sometimes. Fly safe peoples!
Hahaha love it. Bye cheater. You will not be missed. This post proves that Team Security are at least doing a semi good job.
Keep it up TS!
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And youâre certainly entitled to your opinion. Happy trolling, fly safe.
Never argue with an ignorant man. Knowledge is limited, while ignorance is not. ~ Albert Coates
Ah yes, Different Times, Same Old BS. Listening to CCP talk about how they are trying to stop botters was like listening to AOL talk about how they were trying to stop spammers. If not for AOL, spamming would never have taken off and besides, spam was the business model for AOL after a while, that is what killed it.
Some of us have been around a very long time in New EDEN (in this account or others) and we have seen a tremendous amount of the BS and it actually originates with CCP itself.
CCP says botters are an issue. Yet, I remember huge fleets in null many years ago that ran off of macros run by CCP itself. There hadnât been time to train all the way up to make it worthwhile and yet there were these fully trained fleets out mining all the time 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. The funny part was you wanted to mine in the systems while this was going on because CCP kept a lot of the ganking down in those systems.
CCP says botters are an issue. Yet, anyone can go and watch isk scammers bot away in any given trade hub. No sooner does a policy change than every last bot in the hub changes as well. Not in a day or a week but instantly. Far too quickly for it to be someone having to relearn the legal and illegal aspects of a new policy but right then and there.
CCP says botters are an issue. Of course botting is an issue. But the amount of player botting that has or is occurring is nothing compared to the amount of botting CCP has or is doing. Claims otherwise are as laughable as any nations drug problems being blamed on the person who brought back a little weed and stuck it up their respective butts getting caught at the airport or wherever. The amount of weed needed to supply any given major city on this planet requires 18 wheelers and entire ships worth of cargo to be brought in, not some small time wannabe drug mule.
CCP makes a lot of claims that simply are not true.
CCP says we are in a sandbox and anything goes. Untrue. Found a way to defeat this or that? CCP will not only act to prevent you from doing it, they will ban you if you continue doing it.
CCP says the rules are the rules and everyone has to abide by them. Untrue. New EDEN is replete with verifiable cases where the rules are only the rules based on who you are or are not. Some get away with murder and some do not. Several people can all break the same policy/rule and the punishment can vary from not even âchargedâ to banned.
CCP says that they want everyone to go out there and surprise them with what we come up, play the game and have fun. Untrue. CCP wants everyone to go out and play the game they way they want the game to be played. They are like the spoiled kid in his sandbox who wants you to play as long as you only do what he or she wants at any point and any action or statements otherwise will result in whatever CCP feels like at that point in time.
CCP says they want a safe environment for everyone to play in. Untrue. CCP has had a couple of incidents where they allowed for the calling of someone to commit suicide. Not much more you can say about that.
The whole point is CCP has decided it can and will do whatever it wants and you and I and all the other customers can drop dead. It has decided that our opinions donât matter and we can all take a flying âŚi. if we dont like it. This is why so much of the changes in the past couple of years have been terrible ideas.
CCP had decided it loves the micropayment way of doing things. Everyone who has worked hard on getting to where they are can promptly pissoff while anyone who has money to burn can come along and skill up on the spot.
CCP should show everyone how great their ideas are by showing on the launcher how many people are Omegas and how many are Alphas.
For Example:
Tranquility
ONLINE 24,000 PLAYERS (20,000 Omegas / 4,000 Alphas)
Then we will see over time who knows what they are talking about and who does not.
So, how do you fight this? What do we do? We take our money and go find something else. I am letting my subs run out. Who knows, in a few years, maybe they will have come to their senses. I doubt it, but until then, I dont see any reason to continue providing a dime to them.
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I remember this being said 10 years ago.
All they will do is offer more incentives for new players to become Omega and keep botting status quo. I am hoping the day they learn will not be the day the servers shut down.
SeriouslyâŚadd a program that checks all third party programs. It isnât that hard.
I think there should be no warning. Proven botters should have the ban hammer dropped on them. And any and all isk should be disbursed game wide, assets be turned to isk at lower trade hub prices and disbursed. If no buy order to price off of, mineral price and disbursed.
Bad idea for the economy. It is better for CCP to simply keep doing what they do with the ISK and assets they confiscated from the botters. Hold onto them in limbo accounts. Never to be seen again. It would put a damper on the economy if you suddenly inject everyoneâs wallets with the confiscated ISK by seeing overall prices of market goods go up. Basically it will cause abrupt inflation which we all know is a bad thing in any economy.
The amount of ISK that CCP currently holds in their limbo accounts total to literally TRILLIONS of ISK.
If the 2016 article by Polygon is accurate, CCP has confiscated as much as 30 Trillion ISK during the war between I Want ISK and The Imperium. Iâm assuming assets are included in that number. Assuming the number of active subscribers is 500,000, that would amount to 60 million ISK per Omega account or 20 million ISK per alt in each account. Obviously the number drops considerably if you include Alphas which could be a lot more than 500,000.
Even if the amount per account amounts to just a few million ISK after equal distribution, that would cause momentary inflation when you consider most players control multiple accounts and will likely consolidate the ISK from multiple accounts into one main account. The price of PLEX could jump up.
However, this could cause something else that is unintended.
With more ISK injected into everyoneâs wallets, it would make some mission runners take a rest from running missions which means the ISK faucet would slow down for a while. It might encourage miners to take a break from mining which could cause mineral prices to jump due to lower supply. Etc. Quite a lot of theories here but hard to know for sure unless it actually happens but I wouldnât want to try it considering how sensitive the market gets.
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