WHat happens to capsuleers that want to grief others by false flagging ?
Itâll be pretty easy to pick up when this becomes a pattern of behaviour, then thereâs a nice section of the EULA that talks about disproportionate load on our systems and a few other things that then comes into play.
False flagging just makes more work for the Security Team, so people who do it can expect to be on the sharp end of a big stick.
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Thanks for response, but there are still a few things unclear:
1.According to https://zhpatch.evemodx.com/#/theory, Chinese localization files do exist in the EVE client however it cannot be accessed directly. To access it this tool will have to monkey-patch the client at runtime without changing the client. Do you still consider that as ânot modifying the clientâ?
2.Do you consider Chinese localization a legit localization though it has the files but is not explicitly available?
PleaseâŚyou can deflect and attack all you like, but to suggest that just because I have no precise percentage, does not make my points less salient.
CCP obviously thinks that botting is a huge issue, or at least tells the player base that. So they know it is a significant percentage.
No.
CCP have indicated in the CSM Summit minutes that they believe RMT is a larger threat than botting. Theyre reacting to the player base that have gone all fire and brimstone about botting because of recent events. ten years ago botting was a significantly larger problem than it is now. FACT.
Stating that CCP thinks this or that because they release a dev blog around the subject is a fallacy and misrepresentation. CCP released a dev blog on security and tacked on a bunch of stuff about botting because of the recent player discussions about it in a show of wanting to foster better communication with the players. 1800 bots banned may seem significant but its only a little above the normal. Back in 2009 it was 3k+.
Saying CCP are concerned and therefore we should be concerned, when it was the players concern that motivated CCP to speak up about it makes the whole process go into a perpetual feedback loop, which is inherently dangerous.
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Weâre all pirates at heart, pay us to bot hunt 
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ten years ago botting was a significantly larger problem than it is now. FACT.
Could you please give source for this information? Also RMT sites were completely different 10 years ago, especially the much stronger tie-in with account stealing nowadays. While 10 years ago there were certainly mining bots, but the proliferation of bots doing all aspects of EVE were certainly not there or at least as hugely noticeable as it is now. RMT problems are mainly caused by bots providing the isk as well as some of the merchandise that entice people to visit and use sites that help steal their accounts. Ditto with lax personal security. I completely agree that this has been a long term problem and CCP has less than stellar in both fighting and communicating their battle against bots, especially in the last 5 years. CCPâs biggest labor intensive problem is clearing up account losses, much of it caused by the ability for RMT being used to âfenceâ the product, but botting definitely adds to the problem. Double authorization, refusing to patronize the product, and password/internet âhygieneâ mainly solves the account stealing part of RMT, but that depends on each player doing their part. When it comes to the botting aspect of RMT (or just as important, personal use), the ball is completely in CCPâs court. We can report for years and the problem gets worse.
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Would have been nice if that was mentioned clearly in the blog ahead of the forum post.
Thanks for blog update and participation in answering questions.
As to the changes, it strikes me that reducing the first offense to a 3 day suspension from 30 days, is a less harsh response than before, sort of defeating the purpose of cracking down on botting.
Especially since 3 days is only 10% of a sub/PLEX value, whereas a 30 day penalty adds the loss of a sub/PLEX to the punitive cost of botting.
In other words, you have infact made botting more incentivized, cheaper and less punished than before.
Consider that it also makes it much faster to get the person to the permanent ban stage, they donât have to keep the person on the watch list for as long. So either the person will learn or will get permanently banned fast.
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I donât understand why CCP should give botters a chance to âgo legitâ by giving out pointless punishments like a 3-day ban. You might as well say that the first offense is free of punishment⌠what better way to motivate people to at least try out and screw around with bots if you essentially tolerate that sort of â â â â .
This basically means you are allowed to bot until you get caught the first time and since bot-detection doesnât seem to be CCPs strong suit, this could potentially allow people to bot for months and then eat the 3-day ban and then âgo legitâ with all the ISK they earned botting. What a jokeâŚ
If you want to deter people from botting then the punishments need to hurt:
First offense:
- 3 month ban and all ISK on the accounts is permanently deleted.
- Additionally, skill extraction, skill injection and character transfer is blocked permanently for all accounts belonging to the offender.
- Local chat is changed to âdelayedâ (5min delay until someone shows up in the list) permanently for all accounts belonging to the offender.
- All characters of the offender on all accounts are instantly removed from their corps/alliances and they are disallowed to re-join a player corp for 12 months.
- Furthermore, if the offending characters/accounts were a member of any corp/alliance/entity then the leadership of said corps/alliances get informed by CCP that one of their members is breaking the rules.
- A public Hall of Shame would also be good so corp and alliance recruiters and leaders can instantly see that the recruit/member is a known botter. Obviously this needs to be done for all characters on all associated accounts (that use the same credit card, same email address or were logged in from the same IP while the botting was detected).
- If public shaming is not possible then add a permanent botter-flag to the API of all offending accounts so recruiters that check the API can instantly recognize that they are dealing with a botter.
- Goal: Make it so that anyone caught botting is essentially turned into a social outcast and will never again find a decent player group willing to harbor them (except maybe groups like goons that are known to condone botting)
Second offense:
- Perma ban
- Check alliance/corp affiliation of the banned accounts and follow the money trail, banning all involved accounts as you go
- If the same alliances/corp needs to be warned by CCP repeatedly then all ISK on all corporation/alliance wallets of which the offender is a member are frozen and will only be released by CCP after a thorough investigation (which, as we know in the case of CCP, could take weeks or months) and the corp and alliance leaders have talked to CCP and confirmed that theyâre taking all necessary steps to prevent their members from botting (such as ensuring that anyone mentioned in the Hall of Shame is instantly kicked and no such undesirables are recruited in the first place).
- If the corp/alliance is found to be harboring botters on a regular basis then they get disbanded and all alliance/corp assets and ISK are deleted.
- Groups that openly condone botting by asking their members not to report bots are considered complicit in the rule breaking and are disbanded and their assets/ISK deleted on the first offense of one of their members.
Do this and you can be sure that nobody who wants to legitimately play this game would bot. The few remaining bots will just be RMT idiots trying their luck and they can be banned without second thought.
Hell, you donât even need to enforce these rules on a regular basis. Itâs enough to ban a few accounts and make a public spectacle of it (to warn and deter others) and disband one or two high-profile alliances a year and you can be pretty sure that the risk of the punishment alone will prevent all botting by legitimate players.
EVE is a game where social interaction is a key feature. It only makes sense to use this as a punishment for the people that are found to be destroying the game with their rule breaking.
Edit:
A further possible solution to make botting more difficult would be to stop updating the local chat member list if an account (or multiple accounts) are performing ISK-earning activities for more then 16-20h per day and/or more then 40-60h a week. So if you rat for too long during a day or a week, local chat is essentially disabled for you. This restriction would only be lifted after a cooldown period similar to jump fatigue (so if you perma-rat for 3 weeks then youâd be locked out of local chat for 3 or 4 months etc.)
There are many possible solutions to deter botters. A laughable 3-day ban is not one of them. On the contrary, itâs more of an invitation to bot then anything else.
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You dont have to keep an account on a 30day suspension on a watchlist/active surveillance for the 30days they are suspended, cos they are suspended.
They are out of everyoneâs hair, including CCPs, for 30 days.
I think very few botters are so stupid as to resume botting on those accounts when theyâve been caught, once.
30 day suspension means:
- They cant access their account to make transfers of assets or characters.
- They cant use the account at all to run content/profit for the duration.
- They lose one sub/PLEX worth of Omega gametime as a penalty.
3 day suspension means:
- After 3 days they login and transfer assets/characters, and disappear.
- Or, they run those same accounts legitimately, at no real penalty.
- They only lose 10% of a sub/PLEX as a gametime penalty.
Many, if not most botters, run multiple accounts/botting operations!
With a 3 day penalty, they will just focus on their other accounts!
With a 30day penalty, their income is severely hampered, causing a cascade in their overhead costs to sub their accounts!
I think this was a mistake.
Perhaps someone can explain to me how the process is âstreamlinedâ by this, and how that warrants reducing the suspension penalty from 30days to 3 days.
To me it sounds like CCP doesnt want to lose the botting players, hence the small slap on the wrist with a reduced penalty than before.
But this wont prevent that.
It just means they will transfer assets/characters, and start botting again from a fresh slate, laughing at CCP all the way.
To CCP:
1) Will you also confiscate all assets/isk generated by that account through botting in addition to the 3 day suspension?
2) Why are account hijacking and botting rendered the same small punishment?
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So botting is not allowed? Does this include the miner multiboxing. Or ratters⌠besides the Jita scammers? If yes I will be on a reporting campain.
Awesome starting march first I can set up a bunch of bots and run them til I get caught take the 3 day ban then skill extract them and biomass.Question is how long will it take for ccp to catch on?If I donât run them them 23/7 and donât sell the isk can just play the innocent but lazy card.
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Exactly this.
3 days wont put a dent in botter income.
A 30 day suspension would, and they would be unable to transfer SP/assets/characters in that period
Furthermore, CCP has not yet answered if they will confiscate assets/isk generated via botting.
CCP wont catch on.
They will have to start from scratch to investigate a new incidence of botting on another set of accounts (when they detect it perhaps years later seeing their track record), without knowing that PLAYER already received a 3 day ban upteen times,
They are trying to give botters a slap on the wrist, in the hope they will become âlegitâ players afterwards.
It wont work.
Botters dont want to play the game legit.
Botting IS their game.
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We plan to follow up with more regular communication now. One thing we identified is that we havenât been communicating enough. Weâll do our best to have interesting updates to tell you about because we know you care about the state of our universe.
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Letâs say (hypothetically) we made it so that skill extraction was locked if youâd caught a 3 day ban. Would that make a big difference in your opinion?
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The account will be unable to skill-extract during the 3 days anyways, due to being unable to access the game client on that account.
So when, hypothetically, would that extractor lock be applied and for how long?
As Dark Engraver pointed out, botters will extract SP, transfer assets/characters, and continue their botting on other accounts, putting you in the position of having to find them again from scratch.
Also, will you be confiscating bot derived assets/isk from accounts identified as botters and charged with a 3 day suspension?
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This would be very important in my opinion. Since it prevents laundering of the value of that SP and eventual recycling to another bot or the âownerâ.
Assuming itâs permanent and goes along with a trading lock etc.
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Yes permanent sp extraction lock would go a long way to cuting into their profits I feel.
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