Devblog: Interim Statement on Brisc Rubal Follow-up Investigation

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(captain skinback) #63

What?
why are they doing the investigation AFTER the ban? did they not do an investigation before? Theres so much to read between the lines here.

There is something very wrong with this situation and i doesnt take a moron like me to notice it.

(Tipa Riot) #64

Super-GAU incoming with somebody losing their face. Sadly this reminds me, that CCP is still not a mature and professional company. Especially they are not able to handle an institution like the CSM.

(Dirk Kajhone) #65

I understand that a company cannot reveal its’ investigation methods, or most results, or respond to every ban/security action. It’s a game, they have limited resources to do these things, sometimes you have to accept there will be incorrect calls made and simply do your best and move on for the greater good.

However, in cases like this, where the player base often has strong issues about the CSM as a whole, where community engagement teams have been eliminated, where substantial questions have been raised about the nature and manner of the accusations, I think CCP needed to step up and address the issue in as transparent a manner as they can in conscience (and practicality) allow.

While I will often give CCP grief about sloppy event design, bad coding, poor game design decisions etc… they do often step up to the plate and do the hard things when they see they are needed.

So, reserving some judgement until I see the investigation results, but so far I am giving CCP two thumbs up for going the extra mile here.

(Bono One) #66

They are doing the investigation after the ban because they are being sued. It is called a “cease and desist”. This is due process when someone is a victim of a crime.

The United States has a policy of innocent until proven guilty. Yet beyond that there is a US Federal Law which does not allow slander of a person. CCP did not prove the victim guilty yet went beyond that acceptable requirement to further violate law and commit slander in violation of US Federal law 28 U.S. Code § 4101.

It sucks yes, but it should serve as an education (a VERY VERY expensive education) to South Korean company Pearl Abyss that they simply can not have game masters violating law.

It is surprising to see that so much unchecked and obviously unsupervised activity is or was currently allowed to game masters whom were obviously not required to check the legal status of their activities.

It is amazing to me that an actual crime would make it all the way to publication on the EVE launcher itself, globally.

(captain skinback) #67

Im no lawyer so i dont know anything about this sort of thing. Wouldnt ccp be held accountable under Icelandic law and not US law? How do you know they were hit with a cease and desist? Is there some kind of public record for such things?

(Yiole Gionglao) #68

Last week I commented on the lack of finesse in Icelandic culture. Looks like they’re about to throw Brisc under a bus without even speaking to him and then ask him whether he’s hurt after figuring he was innocent…

Funny dudes, those Vikings.

(Wompie) #69

Regarding possible lawsuits:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-14/section-1/suing-out-of-state-foreign-corporations

Before International Shoe Co. v. Washington ,924 it was asserted that, because a corporation could not carry on business in a state without the state’s permission, the state could condition its permission upon the corporation’s consent to submit to the jurisdiction of the state’s courts, either by appointment of someone to receive process or in the absence of such designation, by accepting service upon corporate agents authorized to operate within the state.

tl;dr there is precedent but it really varies on the countries involved. I doubt Iceland would put up much of a fight.

(Bono One) #70

I’m actually trying to pull up the document now and yes it will be public. CCP has a certain amount of time to respond to try to eliminate the lawsuit. That is what they are doing now. That is why you see them saying that they are going to apologize as they are not wanting to have to defend themselves in court.

No, CCP is not protected by Icelandic Law. They are operated out of South Korea now. Yet regardless, the crime was committed in the United States by the publication of the slander on the launcher itself. So where CCP is located does not matter. They published a crime in the US against one of it’s citizens.

On their launcher.

(Xuxe Xu) #71

image

Delicious drama! This alone is worth the price of admission.

…No remarks involving wizard hats and fanfests? I’m slightly disappointed. Must be too old news at this point…still…with the situation…

*popopop *munchmunchmunch

(Nasar Vyron) #72

You’re correct in that public figures have to show malice. So while he may not be able to go after CCP, he will be able to force a statement and go after whoever initially told them. That is where a true case can likely be made depending on the circumstances of how and why CCP was “tipped” off. At the very least it will still be costly to all parties and a lesson learned to not boast about banning people before you’ve fully looked into a case.

I’m pretty sure though that the sheer number of articles written about this could still give him grounds to sue. I’m not a lawyer so I forget what its called, but it still falls under defamation/liable. I’m sure someone more informed can actually say what it is.

(Xuxe Xu) #73

(Lugburz) #74

What im saying is two things.
One, you dont know whats really going on around you and knowing some words wont really help you with that.
And TWO, the USA is not the centre, the be all and end all of all life on the planet.

So you should perhaps return to reality and try to keep your feet planted more firmly on the soil.

Or if you like in british terms

Reel yer 'ing neck in pal

(Arrendis) #75

Too late:

[quote]
We have also been conducting an internal review to substantiate the evidence available to us and evaluate our handling of the situation.[/quote]

We have now learned that CCP doesn’t just convict, but hands down sentences before substantiating the evidence they’re handed.

What the absolute christ?

(Lugburz) #76

Seriously what planet are you on?

(Wompie) #77

You’re the one in the wrong here, chap.

Crime happened in USA, on a US server, to a US citizen, from a company selling services inside of USA.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #78

This isn’t too remarkable though. Outside of a court of law, the priority is often to eliminate the problem, the leak, the security breach, the whatever the ■■■■ first, based on the evidence you have at the time, as quickly as you can. Then you do your due diligence to see if this was the right call or if you need to step it back.

The massive mistake was making it public to begin with, and now peddling more ridiculous drama fodder with no actual content that does anything but feed the Reee Machine.

(Lugburz) #79

Fantasies are nice to have.

(Lugburz) #80

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

(Arrendis) #81

Right. The priority here would’ve been to isolate Brisc from any additional information—a suspension while under investigation. That’s not unusual and it’s not irresponsible. The final ‘removed from the CSM’ is not that temporary ‘while under investigation’ step. That’s a proclamation of final finding. That’s the conviction, to re-use the analogy.

This never should have been made public. EVER. And they need to do their damned due diligence before handing out bans, or making public statements about people.

(Arrendis) #82

If you want to go by that, no, the servers are in London. Doesn’t matter where you connect to them from.