You guys are so bviously want more free kills its mad.
I wouldnt care if they took out JBs. But with them take out Filaments and Interdiction Nullification as well.
I think that’s what some of these nay sayers who say they don’t want to give a solution aren’t getting, that’s the alternative that Fenris has rolling around in the back. No Ansi on one hand, and restricted access on the other.
Yeah absolutely. I agree with that.
I don’t want free kills. I want good fights. Filaments, nullifiers and fuckin ansiblexes ruin all of those to varying degrees.
The best fights, by far, that I have had in this game, are NO MORE THAN 40-60 of my closest friends and I fragging outrageously against similarly sized fleets/gangs or larger ones. I said to someone recently that once they’d experienced that kind of gameplay it’s almost impossible to go back to sitting in huge fleets pushing f1 and it’s true. The game at that scale, and the fights it produces, are bordering on magical. You actually have to think about what you’re doing, you’re part of the team, if you die it matters. None of that applies in blob warfare. Which is what projection promotes.
The same can be said for smaller fights. The problem is it takes effort, and thought, and a little bit of prep work, and nobody can be bothered when the game has been made so bloody easy!
But none of these fanboys want good fights. They want stragglers on JBs. They want Free ESS money. They want easy kills. Prey that wont shoot back or cant shoot back. That is what they want. And they dont think about the consequences or long term effect. They care about the tomorrow how many green is on my KB.
They would be happy for a while. But if what they want and blobs shring they will have less free kills. They will run into way more ppl that shoot back. But thinking ahead istoo hard. They think space can be grabbed by small alliances. Its a dream that was gone 20 years ago when they let us have thousands of ppl in the same alliance. The lack of limitations and penalties for giga alliances is what made them. There is no going back to what could have been. And no amount of nerf to power projection will help with that.
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I love how everyone who plays EvE claims they only want good fights, with medium sized gangs, and how everyone else is just cowards who just want to blob the enemy or blueballs them if they don’t outnumber them 2:1
Both these things cannot be true at once.
Hey I’m just a coward who wants to blob enemies!
Fair fights are also fun, but if I can win a fight with many players in cheap disposable ships versus a few in expensive ships I’ll gladly be part of it. I have no objection to blobbing.
Still I think the game doesn’t need to encourage more of that gameplay through either force projection of ansiblexes nor this ‘solution’ which only pushes more people into the largest alliances.
There’s already enough advantage in numbers as is.
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I think you are exaggerating a bit here. I can’t speak for null, but in JSpace it is absolutely common to ask for even-sized fights and even downscale if a possible opponent can’t match the own numbers, so in the end both can get a 20vs20 or 30vs30, even if one side could have brought 50. I say that from personal experience because I have been part of such fights and they happen pretty regulary.
The point is: This is possible in JSpace because not suddenly a Cyno can go up right next to you and some 100 man gang jumps right on top of you, or fast-travels via Ansiblex System near you and then send some tacklers forward while the blob follows. Small- to med-size fights that are intense and tactical (and thus can take a while) are only possible if mechanics exist that slow down or entirely keep out blobs from coming in fast once such an engagement has been spotted.
Exactly this seems to be the direction in which CCP/FC wants to go and I very appreciate it. Sure, the currently announced changes won’t be the end of this path, but it’s a tiny first step and that is good.
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Blobbing absolutely sucks. So does being on the end of a cyno blob (covert or not). When you suck all the fun out of any type of activity should anyone really be surprised that many players just choose not to participate?
Unless you’re desperate to pad your zkillboard, I don’t see how ganging up on opponents with overwhelming odds is considered “fun”. But then again, EVE attracts a lot of narcissistic personalities that seem to get their kicks out of things like this…
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Well, those people often forget that zKill shows the average pilots per mail. So, if the value is somewhat below 10, you know thats a guy who can fight without the blob. If it’s above 20 or even 30, you know that guy is usually part of blobfleets where individual skill doesn’t count much, because ships usually die before they can get RR or break tackle and bounce.
Hint: People need to understand what average means. The occasional lonely snack pulls down the average quite a bit and in a 100 man fleet you usually don’t get all 100 on the killmail unless it’s a capital, because ships die before everyone is on it and tons of logis don’t even show up. So someone with an average of 30 per killmail doesn’t usually fly in gangs of 30, but ratherin gangs of 50-100. Likewise someone with an average of 10 usually flies in Gangs of 15-25…
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I don’t even know why full points are awarded to everyone on a kill mail in the first place.
If you’re talking about zkillboard they implemented an out of game ‘points’ system for kills that goes down the easier the kill was, or the more ships were involved in the kill.
So if you care about some arbitrary fairness or leetness points, that already exists.
Why not make that the standard then?
Standard for what?
There are no kill points in this game, it’s merely a gimmick of zkillboard.
The game itself merely reports kills and who was involved. It doesn’t judge and if you ask me, it shouldn’t judge either. It’s a sandbox and shouldn’t tell us how to play but only enable us to play.
That isn’t the case for quite some time now. Usually you only get 1 point per mail if there are more than handful of ships on it. So yeah, people who really know how to fight solo or ultrasmallscale usually have rates of 10:1, 5:1 or something like that in points:kills ratio. People who usually fight in gangs or larger fleets will have close to 1:1 ratio here. And this begin to show even in midsize gangs, so it is rather an indicator who does really smallscale stuff (~10 or below).
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You seem to be claiming that all large fleets are skilless, essentially random encounters where the skill of the pilots makes no odds, and it’s all about the numbers (dps, hps, etc.) but this isn’t true.
I regularly fly in fleets of 50-100, and sure, sometimes we show up and the opposition is only 20 or so and we blob them, but often we fight even or outnumbered and who ‘wins’ isn’t just about fleet composition or numbers, it’s about pilot skill throughout the fleet and of course the FC.
Sure weak players and poor execution are more noticeable in a 10-20 man gang, but good execution and skills are still noticeable in a 50-100 man fleet.
The beauty of EvE is that there is no one style of PvP which is better or harder or cooler than all the others. Just different flavours so most everyone can find one they like.
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Isn’t that by very nature a “blob”? Sure, maybe it’s not 200+ ships, but it’s not exactly bringing a “fair fight” to most engagements. Just asking…
The term blob is more than a little nebulous.
One man’s blob is another man’s large gang vOv
A 50 or even a 100 man fleet can easily be outnumbered, outgunned or both.
EVE has engagements of all sort of sizes and 50 man isn’t by default a lot.
When you vastly outnumber your opponent, I’m not sure “ganged up on” is suitable…
Nothing is just black an white, but there is surely a tendency that the larger the fleet, the less important individual maneuvering, positioning, overheating or decision making without the FC calling for it becomes. Up to a point where the Alpha/DPS is so high, that you simply die within 3 seconds before Logi can even catch you, no matter if you are the most skilled combat pilot or the dumbest F1 grunt. You simply go from full health into pod 3 seconds after the opposing fleet yellowboxed you.
There is of course a lot of grey scale between. My point isn’t so much that 100 vs 100 shouldn’t happen or even 100 vs 50 if the larger gang can trap or catch the smaller one. My point is that EVE needs mechanics that most other tactical games have: the more power, the less mobility. Its a basic design decision that basically protects smaller groups (and their engagements) to be outnumbered more often than not because a large group that has spotted them can always move into the combat zone with large forces long before the ongoing fight there is over.
In an ideal EVE, small- to medscale fights are the norm, the daily business and larger fights of 100+ are part of organized campaigns, like Evictions or Structure Assaults that don’t require fast travel. An enemy wormhole, system or structure doesn’t run away. You can take an hour or two to move your big fleet and the capital support and the supercap reinforcements (if you like) toward that area. And then you stay there for a few days deployed , living out of your FOB and some big battles evolve all around that operation. The attacked side brings in own forces in large numbers, again without the nessessity to “come in quickly” because there will be timers for the attacked structures and your FOB will also not run away. And then those large blocks or alliances can have all the big fights they want.
But smaller entities can dodge this and can do their roams and raids and small camps without such 100+ standing fleets hunt them down und bust op their ops just out of sheer boredom.
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