Devblog: Updates to Sales Taxes & Brokers Fees

So you chose not to vote?

That sounds like sedition, citizen

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All things in moderation, and regulated. Without that, humans are rather prone to overindulging… in everything. Pretty much every financial crisis in human history has been caused by greed and consumerism overpowering or removing regulation.

… although I’m not entirely sure what this would have to do with an isk sink tax. Eve’s economy is complicated but not in that way.

Ok increase sales taxes and broker fees, but back it up with better trading functionality.

How about you stop orders disappearing or not showing up for characters that trade in the same station in the same corp. No response to these tickets from support. Cant count the number of times I land up competing with myself cos not all corp characters orders show up.

Offer better trading tools. Eve players third party trading apps are mostly carp! compared to what they used to be. Look at Evernus compared to the junk we have available today. Take some of those extra taxes and invest in good trading tools to open up to more traders, that generates more trading, that generates more taxes!

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Idk why… and i don’t have any statistic as you. but just for the intuition, i feel that it is super stupid idea :confused: there is something called contract, and do you really think the top rich guys use the taxed market system to squeeze money from others?
it might be even better to destroy null sec and let us rebuild lol

For that, CCP would have to actually have a competent long term plan. If you think they do, you haven’t been paying attention for about 5 years.

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Is it just me? CCP reminds me more and more of modern (bad) government. Somehow they always seem to cosy up to the big multinational Corporations (Alliances) and the globalist institutions (EU/Goons) at the expense of the small and medium sized business owners, who wants to go their way and remain somewhat independent, doing their thing, more like a family. And often they’re the bulk of the economy. Not to mention how hard it is to start a new Corp, and become successful, recruit and compete.

CCP seems to be doing many things in the opposite direction of what they should be doing. The bots and the superblocs are the root of the apparent problems, not the Alphas or smaller groups, often industrials, who just love the game on a smaller scale. Not everyone wants to be an anonymous F1 monkey.

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It is necessary to introduce the possibility of renting CONCORD for protection.
No matter where you are, CONCORD vedzie protected youkike at (0.5) system. but not edit bull sec security status

Protection should be limited to 1 solar system.
According to rule 1, pay for one system.
If someone wants to kill you there without intervening, CONCORD must declare war

The amount of the fee for protection should be adequate to the number of accounts in the corporation.
The more accounts, the greater the fee.
Price 100 million isk per account.
Protection period 7 days

How is this an “update” to the game that would increase the player-base?

I’m saying that rampant consumerism without consideration of larger concerns is bad, yes. Because it is. If it wasn’t, the US wouldn’t have needed the Clean Air & Water Act. We wouldn’t be a nation of obese bastards addicted to starches and high fructose corn syrup. We wouldn’t need international organizations just to resolve disputes and prevent wars.

Yes. Yes it is. This is not something we (Goons) wanted. Every goddamned time CCP does something retarded, we tell them it’s retarded. We tell them exactly how it’s going to go wrong. If your core premise was right, we’d be giddy with delight that they were doing great things for us. Guess what! We’re not, cuz they’re not. We want the game to be healthier.

This? This doesn’t do that. This is patently dumb, and hurts most the exact people Hilmar said he wants to help. Please do not try to twist things around to make us to blame for him being dumb, ok?

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Yes, I am, because it’s the opposite direction from what Hilmar is talking about. A balanced change would add a minimum NPC broker fee, also applied on player structures. Keep a difference and incentive to move to player owned markets, but don’t widen the spread by factors.

LOW TAXATION & WE CAN BUY OUR REPRESENTATION

image

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I had another idea about removing materials from EVE from overmining with rorquals which would have in returned kept the price tags on tech 2 rigs stable:

  • making citadel rigs from very minerals they mined

While I was only doing some preliminary guesitmates, I would be so bold and be more specific today.

My proposal would be the equivalent of 5-10 battleships in minerals for a t1 citadel rig and 20-25 battleships for a t2 citadel rig.

If that’s not enough, my next proposal would be in capital material cost, which will make an impact and should remove a large portion of those overmined minerals out of the game.

A word about new bros and how someone new to New Eden would experience “the market”:

Imagine we get a new bro to New Eden and she or he is doing all of those tutorials and career missions as instructed and being curious, she or he figured out on day 1 that “the market” is not only a source of price tags but ingame ships and modules.

Aspiring pilot that she or he is, one major goal for the next few weeks would be a cool tech 1 cruiser to survive and even do those level 2 missions a little quicker than now.

Now our imaginary new bro is checking up price tags in advance for that very cruiser and reads an average of 8 million isk for the post Retribution rebalance cruiser.

Looking at the wallet of our new bros, which shows a meager 1.5 million isk, after buying some skillbooks for that cruiser.

At the pace our new bro is currently gaining some isk that would take a while but our aspiring pilot is still in the honeymoon phase of what EVE could be like and isn’t discouraged at all.
Now weeks later and getting some confidence in flying that very cruiser she or he aspired to earn by means of ingame methods that highsec has to offer, our new bro looks at the variations tab of the cruiser.
The variations tab reveals a navy and a tech 2 variant of that cruiser and being curious of course our new bro is eager to know how much more those kind of ships would cost in case the skills catch up to a point where flying those would be realistic.

Looking at those navy cruiser our new bro sees price tags between 55 and 70-ish million and begins to think that that must be joke or something but when our new bro is checking out the tech 2 variant and sees out current price tags she or he thinks that it is not worth even considering any of those ships and is asking herself why in the world would anyone fly that?
Now our new bro begins thinking, hmm if my ship gets blown up and I would have to make the isk back to fit another one again, would I ever be able to do anything else but those level 2-3 missions for the next 40000 years to maybe make one trip to more interesting or challenging space?

Looks like for many years our imaginary new bro wasn’t quite a singular thought experiment and a “few” others may had a similar line of thought.

It blows my mind how you people complain about it NOW??

If taxation is theft wait until you hear about the labor theory of value!

Honestly, all this ‘taxation is theft’ idiocy is just incredibly rich, taking place on a communications platform largely built on tax money.

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Why ? Just why? Don’t get the benefits for the Players, or the Community, or the Game, or the “Fun” ? Why ?

This seems like a bad idea.

Traders and industrialists will need more margins in order to keep in the black. There will be less trade opportunities and this will have undesirable effects.

  • The prices will be less responsive and this will lead to shortages
  • There will be less incentive to haul between Jita and second-tier markets, price differences between regions will be higher and there will be less open sell or buy orders in the second-tier markets
  • the cost difference between buying and producing it yourself will be greater. Output will decrease as industrialists will be incentivized to mine ores or build components themselves rather than buy them from the market.

I already find the current rates punitive. Mind you there is no real-world equivalent to these taxes: VAT is only paid over the difference between buying and selling and sales tax is only paid by consumers not industry.

So maybe you can find a way so this extra tax only applies consumers and not to industrialists and traders. Remember we are all consumers at some point and traders and industrialists have little part in inflation because they do not use ISK faucets only sinks.

Please reconsider this change.

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CCP hates inflation and is trying to reduce money supplies.
However as long as the market is based on capitalism, inflation goes on with growth of economic. In real economy, with the growth of economy, wages increase. In this game, mission rewards never rise and only the money supplies expanding. If you don’t reduce currency faucets, you need to increase sink. CCP doesn’t seem to be serious about reducing faucets. ( They really need to nerf rorqual much more )
From the point of such a view, this changes seem to be generally reasonable.
Transaction tax and brokers fees are the largest ISK sinks in the entire game.

I generally don’t object this change though, ccplease consider the fact that VAT is literally holding its regressivity.
As market taxes are not based on its transaction value but only on skills. It means those old players with well skilled market alts will not take much damage. And this will effect much more for new players who are likely to be running missions or DED4 in the highsec.

You must increase capital related skillbooks price much more as they are only needed for highend players. And plase delete free repairing services from citadels and their tethers. Add reasonable fee for them again. Remove asset safeties and apply drop tables as POS does for its loot.
You have various way to increase ISK sink, which will mainly affect for old-wealthy players. Or you have to admit inflation goes on and increase high-sec mission and incursion rewards.

aus usual very bad Concept for an idea they had to build an isk sink … when do they hire some REAL game Designers? This might help … or at least anyone with more then one brain cell …

Murphy’s law: “Anything that can go wrong will go wrong”.

I just scrolled the posts in this thread and I can say that the main part of industrialists and marketeers don’t care so much about these changes. At perfect skills, the taxation will be a bit higher (Fee: 3.28%, Tax: 2.25%). But, the Alpha pilots and those without respective skills will notice the changes. Therefore, the main markets will be binded to NPC stations. It’s good, because EVE doesn’t need another form of old moon mining. These changes will not affect bots with perfect trading skills.

AVG 500 PLEX price is 1 900 000 000 ISK.

Here are some comparative digits as “now/after” snapshots for historic records:

  • Current sell price of PLEX on NPC stations with lvl IV trading skills and near perfect reputations.
    Current-PLEX-Taxes

  • Futture sell price of PLEX on NPC stations with perfect skills.
    500-PLEX-NPC-Taxes

  • Futture sell price of PLEX on player owned structures.
    500-PLEX-Upwell-Taxes

Therefore, other transactions can be calculated respectively.

I suggest to sell all NPC comodities, which cost over 5B ISK during this week, because the tax changes (maybe adjusted) can be applied next week. Also it’s a good idea to put on market any extra dusty stuff from your warehouses. This will drop their prices, but who knows how the demand will adjust in the futture. It’s my main activity this week.

Finally, it’s ad time: “If you’ll travel to exotic places in Heimatar, do not forget to visit the Rens emporium to buy the best polarized launchers in New Eden at Jita prices. Square up and get ready for the coming chaos!”

Polarized-launchers