Unless the Tom Bombadil scene appears in The Lord Of The Rings Movies, it’s not the same story.
See wut I did there?
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I see an attempt at coming up with an analogy. Unsuccessfully.
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Your failure to understand the concept of transposition, be it intentional or otherwise, does not make an unsuccessful analogy.
Sorry, haven’t read the full disscussion, but did anyone have a concern about npc corporation tax? Is’t it useless after a change?
This has to be what removing the watchlist was like.
People complaining about facts that don’t exist.
People complaining about losing a toxic gamestyle
People complaining about that it will hurt the game with absolutely no game on Earth to compare it to.
People blaming society that its how they were brought up (you gotta laugh at that one).
People think because they might quit the general population numbers will automatically lower.
There is so much nonsense I almost am forced to yell Fake News at almost everything that is written. Still there is no evidence this will hurt anything in fact the evidence is clearly the other way. There is no game they can claim as evidence because that’s not how pvp games die. It started with people saying “this is how Ultima Online died”, until someone like me said no, I was there, you weren’t and that’s not how it happened. That being the key problem here, they will say ANYTHING to stop this change with 99.999999% of it being just ■■■■■■■■.
Save your time CCP, there is nothing worth reading in this entire thread.
When people blatantly lie like this you should be more encouraged than ever to really stick it to them. They don’t care about EvE and they have obviously proven they don’t, stop caring about them.
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Judging by your first line, you haven’t been with us long enough to see what these kinds of changes bring.
Do you know the chain of events that lead to the “toxic gameplay?”
No, I don’t think you do. You wouldn’t have said what you did about watchlist removal if you did.
DId you know Jita wasn’t always a trade hub? CCP wanted to get rid of trade hubs, so they swapped some stargates around to make the old one, Yulai, less convenient. As a result, Jita became the new trade hub.
Every change that CCP makes has, no matter how small it may seem to you, has the potential for far-reaching ramifications that just can’t be predicted until players get their hands on 'em. I guarantee you this change won’t make a difference to how many players are quitting the game. It will only become more restrictive for new players to PVP in high sec if they want to, and it will now be even easier to lock corps into wars because they won’t be able to get rid of the structure that made them deccable to begin with. And for corps that just want to ‘seal club’ and don’t care about structures, that’s perfect. They can just RF a structure here and there to keep it from being unanchored, and presto, permadec established.
Well that went just stellarly, didn’t it.
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Except the watch list change had nothing to do with trade hub camping and mass decs. That was already happening in large scale before that change.
It’s just become a convenient lie to blame it on that change so people can demand it be brought back.
It was simply about people wanting to pad kbs at the least effort.
So yeah… those of us who actually were here at the time know what went on.
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And I will second this, I was around too. The move to blanket war decs happened before the watch list was removed for the reason it was the easiest way to operate.
NB. The comment should of course be hub and pipe camping which is what mass war deckers do. And I was told that about 5% to 10% of the players in those entities did hunt before the watch list change.
I was here at the time when it happened, and if you think the removal of watchlists DIDN’T increase the amount of camping going on, you are ignorant. That wasn’t its only effect, though, but for all the positive effects it had (all of which were really only beneficial to supercap pilots), the number of negative effects were multiplicative. The biggest problem, of course, was that it was removed with no reasonable replacement mechanic. We went from having too much free intel, to virtually none at all. I’m sure for some, it was simply about padding killboards, but you don’t get to make that assumption about everyone without appearing like an ignoramus paying no heed or dismissing outright the legitimate concerns that were had by both PVP’ers AND PVE’ers, the latter of which could no longer tell if their war aggressors were online or not. Watchlists affected carebears too, and some of them could actually see it. You don’t get to sit there and say it was all about seal clubbing when it made seal clubbing easier by removing the warning that the seals used to get. So don’t be that guy, and don’t play these games with me.
I’m not around for many time, and I’m curious about it, could you tell me more about that?
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blatenly putting everthing that is said as fake and bs is kinda a very ignorant view also the toxic gameplay that you describe is a subjective therm i would like to hear what kind of gameplay is toxic ?
“But seriously, let’s turn back the calendar just a bit to before there were Upwell Structures. It really was so recently that certainly people could not have forgotten this quickly? There were only POS’s.”
I think this is much of the problem for many players myself. Back when you could have your ‘spot’ and it was defensible, these Upwell structures are not. Not upgradeable, not defensible. When these structures came out, players I’d known a long time started to leave the game. While I will add my vote to the revamp wardec bandwagon, I cannot envision a solution that would ‘fix’ it or even help with the current mechanics.
I don’t seek PvP, I came to the game after years of Eve being on the top of my search lists for crafting depth. I avoided the game because of the space-based aspect, nothing more. I eventually gave it a shot anyway and I have seen the game take some nasty turns. I personally think that the ‘sandbox’ aspect has little to do with PvP as some claim as there are so many aspects to this game that there are many things to do. I see as many problems arising from this patch as I see it solving at least. People want to log in and have/find something to ‘do’, that means different things to different people. If I do not wish to or do not have the means to engage in war, then I should have that option; but I do know I can be attacked at any given time for any reason, but warfare should be something I can at least defend against. Upwell structures do not actually offer that. They are nothing more than a huge isk sink so that people can do with 4 structures that they used to do with a PoS that could defend itself.
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well the option always was there it just was not free if you did not want to engage in war. just be a in a npc corp.
But as you said means something diffrent for everyone. on the other hand i despice gankers actually so i rather have a wardec system that people might be wardeced but
1 they know who is gone try to kill them
2 they can engage them in combat if they wish
there is no way you can engage a ganker in combat even as he just langs with flimsy ass ships on you. Also for me te possiblity to retaliate against someone for example for a simple reason as they badmouthing my corp members is something that is valubale as gameplay. gives me something to do also the defenders know my actions have consequences i dont get away with beeing a space ass unpunished. this new system you could even a klickbox in corp managment do i want wars or not. It has no meaning to it and if a corp is using a public structure in a 1 man corp who has nothing to do with it after that patch i basicly need to asume thats theirs and kill it.
The corp i want to target dosent care goes to the next structure and the guy has done nothing wrong lost his stuff i can see how that leads to far bigger crying then a worthless war from pirate against you corp that is basily sensless aslong as you use neut alts for logistics anyhow.
Spoken like someone who has no clue about the status quo at the time
It wasn’t even close to being as bad, every merc group had more people hunting than people camping the hubs.
Even Marmite had a you camp a hub you get booted policy…
So kindly ■■■■ off with your typical that’s what I heard from somewhere type of useless argument.
If you weren’t in any of the merc alliances before, during and after the WL changes, your opinion on how things were is beyond irrelevant.
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Get rekt hisec scrubs
Well this helps:
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Blanket wardecs were absolutely a thing pre watchlist nerf, you are correct there.
But focused, pro-active wardecs of the sort that generate quality content were also a thing. After the nerf, those kind of wars mostly went away, leaving blanket decs and structure bashes as the only practical application of the mechanic. People who had been doing focused wardecs had a choice to make - leave the game, find a new playstyle, or join the big 5 alliances and do blanket wardecs.
Nobody suggested that blanket wardecs came about as a result of the watchlist nerf, that would be sheer ignorance. The practice was developed by Privateers Alliance many years ago. The watchlist nerf just eliminated every other sort of wardec.
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I have seen and been told of people who still hunt despite the loss of the watch list, but they seem to do a certain amount of target selection and operate in specific regions which they get to know well, but many people did indeed stop.
I am not trying to be insulting so don’t take this that way, but I was told that these hunters who gave up generally expected to get a kill within an hours worth of play, which I took as being a bit casual in terms of Eve play. But I could understand their frustration.
I am hoping that a watch list light comes out of the war dec rework, the previous version was way over powered and to the credit of most war deckers they do admit that.
Sadly I have seen that said on these forums by certain war deckers, it was actually propaganda and trolling, but yeah ignorance works for it too. 
I see where you are coming from and I sort of agree with this, and of course we have been pointing out the poor defensive capabilities of Structures. So far I have built about 6 structures, each time I intended to use them, but then decided to sell them. I recently built a seventh and I reckon that will be sold too at some point…