—Prediction—
You will see a large DROP of players putting up structures to help drive the economy in the game. This will force more players to group up together for the few structures to use in the future until high-sec will be dominated by NPC stations over a year from now if this change isn’t rolled back. PVP and high-sec wars will continue but now will be targeted only at the corps. Structures are the life of the economy. Without them turning or into minerals into products into tech two products you will see the economy start to disappear for everyone except the two large null sec alliances.
Hahahaha hisec tears best tears
If the current band aid change is left as it is, then you will be right, that will be the outcome, though as many war deckers have pointed out here that there are a hell of a lot of structures in hisec and so far while there are a few entities having a go at clearing regions they have a long way to go.
The structures have a real value if you want to do indy, so if this band aid was to continue in force then CCP would have to make it easier for people to ally to help defend key structures that they use or wish to use and this could develop a coming together in hisec.
However most hisec players keep their head down and try to avoid attention, but because these structures are so key to being able to compete even at a poor level with the nullsec indy blocks they don’t really have much choice.
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seeing as the oldest keepstar was destroyed, i think its off to a good start.
I personally think this patch/change will increase ganking due to many reasons I have seen posted here, if you can’t declare war on someone for an affront, then it may be your only option to exact revenge or justice as the case may be. I do have some concerns about neutral logistics though, since I have not actively participated in war as a combatant (I have had losses to such but I didn’t fight), I don’t know much about this mechanic but the concerns in this thread are enough to make me wonder if or how honorable/fair warfare could be instituted in this game. Someone called this “World of Evecraft”, I have played World of Warcraft and if I helped/healed someone engaged in PvP combat, I was flagged for such combat myself; an intended insult could be a potential solution here.
this is where asset safety is somewhat valuable to players using structures belonging to others, the only positive thing I really see in Upwell structures vs. the PoS. However, players have to wait and pay to get their stuff.
Curious: how exactly do you think that had something to do with hi-sec wardec changes?
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From my own personal standpoint, as a member of several smaller corporations, I think the defensibility of the structures is a major issue. Even if I happen to be online during active combat, I cannot adequately defend my structure(s). It seems as though these things are meant to be ‘disposable’, I do not have that kind of isk, nor do most of the corps I have been with. Often I am the only one online in a corp during my ‘play time’. I am not combat skilled, but I will do what I can to defend myself and my corp’s assets, but these structures are like an unsecured network, allowing anyone in that has enough firepower without allowing my structure to be able to be viable, even with someone at the controls. Nevermind when I sleep or work or shop. I wouldn’t mind so much being wardecable if I thought I could defend my stuff. Want to keep players? Make sure there is at least the possibility they can protect what they have spent time and money on. If I am at war and I have a chance and lose stuff, fine, it happens, I wasn’t good enough. But if I have no chance, then there is no point in my being here. No point in me paying for a sub, no point in my putting my isk into structures.
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If structures were easier to defend, small pvp corporations would have (even) harder time to try and take one from a bigger one too. It is always a trade off…
(No comment what would be best, just saying that changes that appear to advantage The Little Guy against the Big Bad don’t always work only that way.)
so how many of those wardecers actually showed up ?
i suspect the number actually to be 1 or 0 so
i also like all the people spouting if you want to pvp go to low sec or null. And always as i read that i wonder do they even know what the null sec war maschine is and how badly the odds are stacked against you if you enter their home terretory? sure you can go pvp in null sec if you have like 70+ fleet otherwise well not very likely.
also that change is dump for the single reason. i can get behind the risk thing so to put a own structure to be able to wardec people but that they need a structure too so i can wardec them is dump. Also turning the fees around for eatch attacker that is your ally group you pay a flat fee for the wardec for example 5 mio per pilot then i am sure they would not wardec half eve anymore with 100 man corps 100 * 5 mio * number of wars hmm wraps up badly quickly.
and for your industrial corp under the pretence that there might be 1 dude or 2 dudes showing up what can they do. get in ships kill them continue your mary way high sec logistics to cita eiter pay a freighter service or use neut chars that they dont even know about.
Thats a big reason why null sec alliances dont care about wars their high sec logistic is done by a network of neut chars anyhow so.
I can’t say how much I love this war dec change and how much I didn’t expect that to actually happen.
Yes it will be a killer for all those Jita campers out there, but then this is also a great relief for all those tiny corps out there that try to get into the game but get constantly bullied by war dec corps. This is a big step into the right direction for me.
Because thats when i joined fw. In the time between that loss and joining fw, i was concentrated on isk making so i could have enough isk too buy ships.
You are correct in that, but it needs to be more about skill and determination rather than mechanics. Most of the people I have personally talked to are unwilling to risk the isk that goes into indefensible structures. Since this announcement, I have seen many structures be offered up for sale in my area. I wouldn’t want to try to defend one. It isn’t about the war prospect, it’s about I can’t defend months of work worth of isk. I haven’t been around for the entire time of this game, I have not been in large corps that have helped to fund me, I am barely able to break even and if I manage one of these structures (in isk) for my corp only to see it and my work lost…I have little to no interest.
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I understand your position and I really hope ccp finds a suitable solution.
My point is that since it’s a sandbox, all changesin your benefit have other effects, and some of those effects (eg making local powerblocks even more powerful) might affect your gameplay indirectly even if they directly don’t.
So be careful what you wish for, 's all 
Lady Sorry you missunderstood me. I dont care about the structure owner as much as its annoying me that the guys i wanted to hurt just dont care since i blown someone elses structure up not thiers.
in that thought example i am ceo of the corp wanting to retaliate against another corp using a 3rd partys structure as thier home base since i cant wardec them directly i have only two options.
Either i resort to gankers or i attack the 3rd party structure they are basing out of there is nothing else i can do to hurt them and they can do what ever they want with impunity. They wont care about the destruction of that structure since ist not theirs just go for another base.
I am totally with you, the thing is that CCP designed them to be force multipliers so that you had to have a fleet to defend them, however that means that they are not fit for purpose in hisec and their weapons suck too.
If hisec players were to start ganging up to defend key structures that would be a change, but I am very pessimistic on the possibility of that happening, most players in hisec want to do their own thing so don’t want to mix with others and keep their heads down, I know that myself as I fall into that mindset. And when I saw that you had to have a structure to ally in a war dec I thought to myself damn this screws the chance of ever forming a defensive fleet, that is a killer in terms of changing mentality.
I was looking at creating a holding corp for a structure, and was hoping to ally in with my main corp to defend it if I thought I had the chance to do so, but this really screwed it. I was also hoping to develop a coalition of people to come in as allies on key structures, but this inability to ally without a structure kills it because you have to start jumping through more and more hoops.
Anyway, I just have to wait and see, but I guess that we just have to hope that the war deckers attempt to destroy structures in hisec runs out of steam due to boredom so the school of fish defence approach still works… It is not great is it…
Can’t understand the game designers logic there …
You create a great game with a “High-Sec” zone and you put wardec in it, making it by design less safe than any other zone because it’s targeting people that want to play without to be impacted by pvp and that don’t have the knowledge to handle it.
Now you put in place great structures, the perfect goal for a small industrialist corp, but yeah same player shoot again, put xx B in space and just expect the wardecers to target you and ruin completely your game with 0 impact for them.
You should redefine what you want people to actually do in High Sec, because playing there has absolutely no interest for a new player. Players should be able to build their dream corp in High Sec without any “legal” way to piss them off.
This being said, there is place for piracy in High Sec, but NEVER EVER in a “legal” way with CONCORD help.
Piracy should be a viable lifestyle, not a legal one.
For example : if you reduce concord reaction time, it will bring more opportunities to attack a pilot that think he is in wonderland with his charon hauling 20b of goods.
Give the opportunity to the more careful players to buy additional concord protection for a limited amount of time that will greatly increase their reaction time for when you know you don’t want to be attacked.
All you’re doing with this change is to say to new players that they can mine, do missions and PI in high sec without to risk a wardec and just preventing them to reach one of the most interesting part of the game, owning their own structure.
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An interesting post, get rid of bumping, remove wars and reduce CONCORD’s response time and be able to buy additional CONCORD protection, I could go for that as a hisec design.
sure reduce concords reaction time to not at all but then you have null sec mate. Real combat ships you dont suicide against concords wraith.
they are far to expensive.
I certainly agree there everything that is changed has an effect on us all as players. Everytime the ‘timeline’ (any gameplay mechanics) are messed with, we all feel the ramifications, intended or not. I was told that the Upwell structures came about as a ‘replacement’ for the PoS’s that the person who designed/coded them was no longer around to give access to the code. If this is true or not, I really do not know, but it would stand to reason as to why the Upwell structures are so vastly different. I really do not see this change to be to my benefit as an indy player, it limits my war status but it also limits what I can do. I now think that I have nothing I can do to improve myself, my account, my corp or other players.
The thing you have to do to improve yourself is to get big enough with enough combat players to defend your structures against most attackers, but that is quite difficult to do in hisec in my opinion.