well about the upwell structures i would only say they are not inheretly bad just would have loved if it would not matter if its a refinery a astharus or a raitru you put a give service on just make it that the dedicatet structure is more efficent running the service but then you could still take a astharus and fit a drill to it in case you are in a dangerous space like high sec would just not run as feul efficent.
When I get time to play, mostly nobody else is around that are friendly. And I do reside mostly in hisec at this time due to my irregular availability. I canāt depend on others to defend me. I have to be able to do it myself. (otherwise, I end up being told I canāt undock or do anything unless there are combat pilots online, and that is not conducive to logging in)
well as corp ceo i say defening a structure is a corp task not a i like 1 player does it task same with starbases back then same story. if your corp cant defend it its hard to adress that without screewing everything in the game. you cant be like i want group stuff but i want to do it solo then everbody could do that we basily would be like oh yes upwell structures are good dam impossible to kill ahhhhh discussing in that forum here.
When this change was announced I thought it was time to come back to hisec and then see if it would be possible to develop a coalition of corps and alliances willing to defend each others structures. But this inability to ally without having a structure kills it for me. I still want to do it but I am getting a feeling of inertia from this.
NB. I tried to contact you in game to ask you a question or two about TZ and location, but donāt tell me on the forums.
I hope maybe you can find this or a way around it/means to do so. You could be a light in the dark for hisec players and even help to get some of us to log in more often. I donāt know many still around these days but I might find a few.
The only way to make this work is pick a region and then setup in it with a number of like minded people and then work together to defend each others structures. I want to give this a go, but this ally thing took the wind out my sails a bit. Contact me in game and lets see what can be done.
Can you explain why? If the idea is to defend each otherās structures then everyone involved should have some, right?
It is all to do with flexibility in being able to pick and chose the wars, by having a structure holding corp with a nothing character in it, while your main characters are able to run around without wars and do missions, mine, move stuff etc. Of course I can move them into the holding corp as I want to which I guess I will do. But it is getting others to do this which is the issue, because most hisec players are not especially dynamic in terms of doing this sort of thing, they want to have as little impact to them as possible and most have their main trained up and that is all. Or have limited combat skills.
I see.
Maybe have the holding corp in an alliance and have people join their corporation into that for defense? Does not solve the not wanting or being able to fight of course, but nothing much does anyway.
well either you want to fight then you go in a alliance with the guys or you dont then you dont but you cant have the cake and eat it (while still having it).
Many people are ignorant of the makeup of the players who are operating in hisec, most do not have combat related skills and as such there is no cake and no eating itā¦
And if I wanted a little bit of cake to eat it to be able to get hisec players to get up out of the gutter and defend themselves CCP should give it to us, because the war deckers had a mountain of cake and gorged themselves on it for many years.
I retract my post and instead admit that it is not worth it talking to the likes of youā¦
ā¦and that it is my fault for believing that there is any point in doing so.
@Elsebeth_Rhiannon
Itās a very valid and honest conclusion, and definitely appropriate. Sugar coating things is for politicians who are well aware that people are dumb enough to believe fake nice-ness. I prefer to be honest, especially emotionally honest.
In the end was it my fault for actually talking to him, believing that there is a point in doing so ā¦ but there isnāt. Nothing of this matters, or has influence, and the mere exchange of opinions amongst people who most often arenāt actually intellectually capable of forming a proper one, while believing that it actually matters, is rather dull and stupid.
Youāre still at it.
Good luck with that.
Thatās fixable.
Not wanting those skills isnāt, not by anyone outside that person.
Many people here are missing the point, or at least ignoring itā¦ This mechanic allows the wardec targets to have some measure of control over content, to stop the baby seal clubbing.
I see most complaints about this boiling down to Wardecārs being hurt over the fact they canāt pick on the unwilling anymore. You guys proud of that?
Either have no structures so can focus on non-pvp stuff or Have one and take the risk along with that reward.
If noobs want to fight, if they think they have a chance at it - they can put up a structure. Many Will do just that, cause it will be a way to have PvP in high-sec with worrying about EVERYBODY being able to shoot you in Low or Null. And they donāt have to worry about losing the structure because u guys wonāt shoot it. why would you - since it would stop the war? Many new guys want to fight , they come into the game knowing its a PvP game, but complain about having no breathing room, this gives them a group and a structure to be able to learn.
I see some corps being formed with the intent of being war targets. Imagine, you want some PvP experience? join this corp. The war decāer will get content, probly all they want. But is organized, somewhat capable enemies something that they are afraid of?
Eve is a PvP game - true. so let them learn the game so to be better able to fight backā¦ Let them decide when they are capable to take you on ā¦ what is so wrong with that? You can still gank them if u insist ā¦
Are all the complaints about the declining quantity of baby seals? or is it that CCP is taking away your clubs? 
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It is a fair point of view and an excellent post, I think war deckers will have enough targets, but they will have to force the fight. It is not going to be as easy for them as it was before. I think this current basis hurts the smaller war decker more than the blanket ones sadly but the hisec population needed a break from this shite. And structures are something you need to fight for.
That is something that people like me have to get working on.
@Aaron I am starting it now, do you want in? PS no dramaā¦
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So my alt set up a Raitaru in high sec as an experiment regarding this new change. I put it in a relatively popular system and added some rigs, but no defenses to make it look good. Proceeded to trash talk in local and was finally rewarded by getting war decād by what appeared to be a rather large merc alliance. I then proceeded to add our low sec alliance as help to the defender.
So 1 day later 11 guys show up attack my Raitaru and burn through the shields. Armor timer then gets set for 2 weekends ago. Perfect. I get a fleet of 15 guys ready to come defend the Raitaru expecting to get some bling kills. I have a cloaky alt watch the mercs warp into position with their typical big bling ships and start grinding the armor. We get ready, a couple of us only have frigates, but most have t2 cruisers.
We warp into the system and prepare for the fight warping to a strategic spot very close to their position. As we enter the system and get into dscan range, I watch on my cloaky the mercs start aligning and run away just as we land on grid. What a bunch of cowards!
So now the āwarā is entering itās 3rd week with no signs of stopping and they have made no further effort to attack the Raitaru. They have demanded 2.5 bil for a surrender, which for a 1 bil Raitaru is ridiculous. I could care less about the Raitaru, we wanted the bling kills.
So the question becomes, How does a small corp willing to defend itās structure stop a war when the attackers refuse to attack or stop the war themselves, basically creating a perma war? This merc alliance have structures all over Null sec, Low sec and wormhole space and would be impossible to find and destroy them all.
So under the new system how does the war stop, aside from paying them off? Which is no guarantee of stop said war btw.
Holding corps hostage, though may be fun for a slight few, will not be fun for most high sec corps. The only solution I can see is have escalating war dec costs as the war continues. Thoughts?
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Iād like to see some system where if fighting (or at least killing) does not actually ensue, the war goes away. I am not sure how to measure that (everything that comes to mind immediately has issues), but personally if you ask me wars that donāt lead to action are the bane of high-sec.
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Great patch!!
We adapted and are now going after all the structures. System for system. Or they die and we get rich from loot or they pay us per month. And this makes way more isks than via the clients we have. So I foresee a perma dec for most of the nulsec alliances.
You can thank CCP and the CSM. 
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I agree thatās an issue. its one reason I suggested earlier that only structures in High-sec count in wars. After all Concord only has Wardec authority in high-sec. Still that is 2300(?) systems to hide them in.
Possibly having a random selection of ONE structure by the wardec system - that will stop the war when destroyed? As well as u being notified of that structure location when the war starts. They same would apply to Allies (and yes structure in high-sec too).
I know this invalidates wardecāing Null pr low-sec entities (at least those without structures in high-sec) but there is no reason why we cant have a separate but equal system for that.
High sec structures simply donāt get good enough bonuses to reward growing past a certain size, as the size costs start to outweigh the benefits, and multiple structures make you far more a target. (Yes Low sec also has this issue, Low sec should actually be where the highest bonuses are, as busy uncontrolled space with access to Empire population but fewer laws to hold you back)
High Sec needs something special, that you can actually focus a highsec corp on that is related to structure use to grow these decent sized corps around. Not simply a weaker version of everywhere else.
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