Devblog: War Declaration Changes - The War Adjacent to Christmas

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(Karmastat) #870

Forever Wars?

If I understand correctly the only thing changing is that both sides need a structure to start a war.

I haven’t heard that the war will continue past the week it currently lasts, so they will still end after a week regardless, right? (unless renewed that is)


Discussion above about not requiring structures for allies joining a war AND that once they do they can never leave it until it is over?

If allies don’t have structure then how will the opposite side defeat these allies? (what were you smoking?) And that is just going back to the old system.

Also

Such as Wardec corp (A) has perma dec’d Corp (B) and allows Allies to come in who have no structure, over and over. at a fee of course.


(Kelath Erebus) #871

“Forever Wars” are those wars where the attacker/grieffer continues to renew the war dec week after week after week, sometimes for months. It is in no way representative of a new mechanic where a war will automatically continue after being declared.

That is a really good point about allies. The attacker might not take out the structures of those they are trying to demoralize by keeping the war going, but they might want to hit the targets allies hard to stop them from helping.


(Daichi Yamato) #872

Currently allies need a structure to join a war. But once they have joined they cannot be knocked out.

Allies do not join wars permanently though. I believe allies enter the war for two weeks or something.

Once an ally offer is accepted, the offering entity will be treated as being part of the defenders in the war for two weeks before the offer has to be renewed.


(Karmastat) #873

The confusion comes in where you now need a structure to join a war even Allies (according to CCP) and separately they have said that if u lose your last structure the war ends for you.

I think it would work as they intend if an Ally (for either side) can be knocked out of the war. This makes the most sense, since it adds more game play.

I could also see where if u have corps A & B at war and C comes in on the attackers (A) side. That Corp D could dec the allies C separately and destroy C’s structure. At which point the war between C & D would end as well as C’s participation in the war between A & B. — Strategic war dec’s, kewl.

Also there is nothing stopping D from dec’ing A at the same time as A & B are at war and destroying A’s ability to continue the war … The cancelling of wars in this way is new, and I think it will add new game play as well. (Don’t get involved in multiple wars, lol - elegant.

Also nothing stopping multiple War Dec’ers to dec on the same target and have competition to see who wins first, lol.


(Dracvlad) #874

It is not me you have to persuade, but newer players who want to share stuff using corp hangers and hang out in their own tight little group. Personally I don’t think you could change their perception one bit.

Good, it is meaningless in reality…

Yes you understand it, however just mining rocks the whole time and waiting for ganks is fine for someone who wants to chill play, but people want to strive to do better, so at some point they will look to structures.

The forever war is dumb, however it is perhaps better to have something that needs to be blown up that ends the war and it needs to be doable for the children to coin a phrase.


(safira jomita) #875

In fact that’s not entirely true, cause when a small corp of not veteran players are being camped with t2 and Ewar to the hell, most players stop playing for a time, and loose interest in EVE. the wardec was being used to farm new players, and not to their designed purpose


(Dracvlad) #876

That is another persons quote not mine, I happen to disagree with that statement and agree more with you, what I would suggest is that they are not so much farming new players, but any player that passes their way.


(safira jomita) #877

Oh y right sorry I quoted the quoted text xD… and in case of experienced players, they have the knowledge to do other stuff, or log an alt,Wich new players don’t. And let’s say a corp had 4 experienced players and about 10 or more new players like my old one had, if those new players lose interest in eve , that Corp is crippled very hard


(Rivr Luzade) #878

Good that this is not an argument. Forever wars only happen to RVB and against certain Null sec Blobs. In neither case this is an issue. In contrast, allowing null sec groups to quickly end a war is absolutely detrimental.


(Black Pedro) #879

It’s also pretty much a pipe dream. Letting people end wars “quickly” and structure combat in highsec are incompatible. Over a week to explode something isn’t what most null groups are looking for when they ask for a way to end a war. They want a single button they can blob to turn off the risk, not engage in prolonged structure bashing. And even if they do, another structure will go up the next day and the war will resume.

Wars are going to continue be prolonged affairs. Any changes CCP makes will be to make them more meaningful, not easier to get out of. That would be a terrible design goal; why waste developer time on a feature so that it is easier for your players not to participate? That makes no sense. Any changes so players can avoid wars will be so they don’t end up in one in the first place instead of building in a rapidly-achievable victory condition that ends the war. They will try to make their feature fun/advantageous so people want to participate rather than making the reward turning off a war.

And yes, it would be a terrible idea to give the largest groups in the game a way to earn NPC protection for fighting. They are the last ones who need it.

Further, I am not sure what this “forever war” bogeyman is. Last week, anyone could already keep someone under a war forever and that wasn’t really a thing. Maybe there needs to be some way to cede or self-destruct a structure included in the upcoming permanent system, but like last week, you can drop corp instantly to get out of a war if you have had enough. Groups now have a way to play the game without worrying about wars, but if they decide they want to deploy a structure, then they are at risk like everyone else who deploys a structure. There is a choice so I don’t see why a group needs protection from the consequences of their choices.


(Sylvia Kildare) #880

Well, and being suspect baited, or duel spammed (if they don’t have them disabled already).


(Black Pedro) #881

Not if your safety is set to green. You are literally immune to any legal attack (unless you decide to switch it to yellow/red), although that was true before if you were in the NPC corp.


(Dom Arkaral) #882

Couldn’t you shoot at suspects with your safety set to green?

That’s what I recall from the last time I was in Amarr


(Black Pedro) #883

I’m pretty sure you can’t.

Let me see.

Nope, I was wrong and you are right. You can shoot suspects and duel. I stand corrected.


(Syeed Ameer Ali) #884

Red safety allows you to do things that will get you a red (criminal) flag, yellow safety allows you to do anything that will get you a yellow (suspect) flag, simple as that.

Green safety allows you to do anything that won’t get you either of those flags - engaging legal targets is perfectly fine.

That’s how ninja baiting works - you make yourself yellow, present yourself as an alluring target, get green people to shoot at you, then you can shoot back without CONCORD.


(safira jomita) #885

And I bet y did that a lot don’t you ? xD


(Iowa Banshee) #886

Does it help you to know their single Citadel is parked in Jxxxxxx a C3 with null static or Deep in Null-Sec.
You have a near zero chance to find it or attack it for the duration of the war and they run can around blapping everything you own to their hearts content driving all your corpies to NPC sanctury.

I would be more concerned that there is no numbers balance, It will always be preferable for a 500 man corp to wardec a hundred 5 man corps than take on one of equal size.


(Korelis) #887

I used to be an empire wardeccer.
Didn’t play in a few years.
Each newsletter CCP sends me, I’m hoping for the big announcement. The announcement that empire wardecs are back and scamming idiots in Jita local with Raven Navy Issue trade windows to afford it is back.
Each newsletter CCP disappoints me. All they ever announce is more carebear ■■■■■■■■. New missions. New shitty useless PvE events. New skins!
20 minutes ago I received CCPs latest and last newletter. Exciting changes to wardecs. Whoa. Can that be it?!
Let’s see… “Corporations and alliances that control at least one structure in space are now considered war eligible.”
Are you ■■■■■■■ telling me that should I come back to EVE, I would have to set up a whole POS to ■■■■■■■ wardec?!

That’s it, I’m installing WoW, there’s more possibilities for a dark playstyle there.


(Anderson Geten) #888

Turn off your screen, you will have a literally dark play style.


(safira jomita) #889

Yes!!! And giving how you reacted to this , WoW is perfect for you! :peace_symbol: