would you by chance have a drop rate number per site type and per mutaplasmid type ?
I’m going on sisi to get some data on basic sites.
Good point. I don’t have the time to research to such an extent, and considering that the numbers might not be final and that Devs might tweak things all the time, I’m a bit concerned to waste too much work on a proper research.
That being said, according to me recent tests I found the droprate of Mutaplasmids in Tier 5 sites to be 2-3 times higher than in Tier 2 sites. The average from around 20 Tier 2 sites was below 1.
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As one example from a current quick test.
5 runs Tier 2 Exotic.
- runtime around 40 minutes all together
- 3/15 of Containers were empty
- 10 Filaments. 7 Tier 2, 1 Tier 3, 2 Tier 1
- 2 Modules, 1 Module BPC, about 50% of Materials needed to build Damavik (Frigate)
- 1 Decayed Warp Scrambler Mutaplasmid
edit: another 5 runs, another 1 mutaplasmid out of 15 containers
this is a sad joke
3 Likes
kind of funny to understand how the “eve is dying”-crow always manages to influence ccp in a way that they give them new food for their brigading.
ccp: hey guys, we have a new mechanic, it’s going to be great
crowd: wtf ccp, r u kitten? this is p2w, dis gonna kill eve, grr goons, dis rly bad, will abuse, change not good
ccp to itself: hm, we can’t look weak, have to go through with it. but players cry, let’s make sure it has no effect, let’s change droprate so nothing will happen.
ccp: thanks for all the feedback
expansion comes, no one really likes the half-hearted implementation of it
crowd: see ccp? change is bad, no one likes it, it didnt change anything, why u cant ever get something right, remember valkyrie, remember dust, eve is dead, yaarrrwrw
7 Likes
It would be better if you could keep with raw data and not melt in the griefs you have against whoever.
It annoys anybody who doesn’t care, and only keeps you in your own mind of “I dont like this”
Basically it us useless, instead prevents constructive criticism.
here is the loot from 7 calm dark. not a single mutaplasmid.
I use an orthrus with heavy missiles
loot
calm dark
r1
r2
Triglavian Survey Database 5 Triglavian Data 0,50 m3
r3
Zero-Point Condensate 7 Abyssal Materials 1,75 m3
calm dark
r1
r2
r3
Agitated Electrical Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Fierce Dark Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
calm dark
r1
r2
Crystalline Isogen-10 3 Abyssal Materials 1,05 m3
Zero-Point Condensate 15 Abyssal Materials 3,75 m3
r3
Calm Electrical Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Small Compact Entropic Disintegrator 1 Precursor Weapon Small High 5 m3
calm dark
r1
Calm Electrical Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Calm Exotic Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Calm Firestorm Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Zero-Point Condensate 9 Abyssal Materials 2,25 m3
r2
Agitated Gamma Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
r3
calm dark
r1
Calm Gamma Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
r2
Precursor Battleship 1 Spaceship Command 0,01 m3
r3
Agitated Firestorm Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Precursor Frigate 1 Spaceship Command 0,01 m3
calm dark
r1
r2
Large Precursor Weapon 1 Gunnery 0,01 m3
Triglavian Survey Database 3 Triglavian Data 0,30 m3
Zero-Point Condensate 13 Abyssal Materials 3,25 m3
r3
Agitated Dark Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Zero-Point Condensate 14 Abyssal Materials 3,50 m3
calm dark
r1
r2
r3
Triglavian Survey Database 6 Triglavian Data 0,60 m3
orthrus fit
[Orthrus, calm dark]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Damage Control II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Thukker Large Cap Battery
Gistum B-Type 50MN Microwarpdrive
Missile Guidance Computer II
Missile Guidance Computer II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Small Tractor Beam II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Hobgoblin II x5
Caldari Navy Scourge Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I x955
Nova Fury Heavy Missile x935
Scourge Fury Heavy Missile x1000
Federation Navy Inferno Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I x825
Republic Fleet Nova Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I x995
Missile Precision Script x2
Imperial Navy Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I x870
Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile x920
Inferno Fury Heavy Missile x1000
1 Like
You start to sound a lot like Salvos in this topic.
that’s why i put raw data and comment into two different posts.
however, i don’t do and share bits of research just because. if numbers don’t provide a base to understand and challenge our ways, they are basically useless.
This made me look through your post history in this thread. Lol Troll.
2 Likes
Anyhow, back to the numbers.
I’ll run 10 Tier3 to see if droprate looks any different.
I got one out of 10 runs in calm dark.
1 Like
got two over … 12runs
Summary
calm dark
r1
r2
Triglavian Survey Database 5 Triglavian Data 0,50 m3
r3
Zero-Point Condensate 7 Abyssal Materials 1,75 m3
calm dark
r1
r2
r3
Agitated Electrical Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Fierce Dark Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
calm dark
r1
r2
Crystalline Isogen-10 3 Abyssal Materials 1,05 m3
Zero-Point Condensate 15 Abyssal Materials 3,75 m3
r3
Calm Electrical Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Small Compact Entropic Disintegrator 1 Precursor Weapon Small High 5 m3
calm dark
r1
Calm Electrical Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Calm Exotic Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Calm Firestorm Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Zero-Point Condensate 9 Abyssal Materials 2,25 m3
r2
Agitated Gamma Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
r3
calm dark
r1
Calm Gamma Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
r2
Precursor Battleship 1 Spaceship Command 0,01 m3
r3
Agitated Firestorm Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Precursor Frigate 1 Spaceship Command 0,01 m3
calm dark
r1
r2
Large Precursor Weapon 1 Gunnery 0,01 m3
Triglavian Survey Database 3 Triglavian Data 0,30 m3
Zero-Point Condensate 13 Abyssal Materials 3,25 m3
r3
Agitated Dark Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Zero-Point Condensate 14 Abyssal Materials 3,50 m3
calm dark
r1
r2
r3
Triglavian Survey Database 6 Triglavian Data 0,60 m3
calm dark
r1
r2
Calm Gamma Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
r3
Agitated Electrical Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Crystalline Isogen-10 2 Abyssal Materials 0,70 m3
Large Precursor Weapon 1 Gunnery 0,01 m3
calm dark
r1
r2
Zero-Point Condensate 8 Abyssal Materials 2 m3
r3
calm dark
r1
r2
Agitated Firestorm Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Decayed 100MN Afterburner Mutaplasmid 1 Mutaplasmids 1 m3
r3
Agitated Electrical Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Calm Firestorm Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Triglavian Survey Database 3 Triglavian Data 0,30 m3
calm dark
r1
Agitated Electrical Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Decayed 500MN Microwarpdrive Mutaplasmid 1 Mutaplasmids 1 m3
r2
Agitated Electrical Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Decayed 500MN Microwarpdrive Mutaplasmid 1 Mutaplasmids 1 m3
r3
Agitated Firestorm Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
Calm Electrical Filament 1 Abyssal Filaments 10 m3
calm dark
r1
Triglavian Survey Database 1 Triglavian Data 0,10 m3
Zero-Point Condensate 5 Abyssal Materials 1,25 m3
r2
r3
Triglavian Survey Database 5 Triglavian Data 0,50 m3
2 Likes
will update when finished running
5/10 Tier 3 Fierce Exotic done.
- 1 Decayed Warp Disruptor Mutaplasmid
- 6 Filaments (T2,T3,T4)
- 317 Trig Survey, 42 Iso-10, 35 Z-P Condensate
- 1 Meson S BPC
1 Like
You just proved it.
Please if you can’t add anything interesting to the discussion, keep your useless insults for yourself.
I know your life sucks, no need to show it here.
1 Like
Loot from 5 exotic particle storm tier 4s:
12 filaments
3 decayed multiplasmids
260 Triglavian Survey Database
57 Crystalline Isogen-10
301 Zero-Point Condensate
1 Medium Veles Entropic Disintegrator
2 Small Compact Entropic Disintegrator
1 Skillbook
-> way too many filaments, way too little multiplasmids
2 Likes
Agree. I am not sure if CCP reads this thread or only the other one, taken that this one had a bit of a rough time a few days ago. We should make sure they know the numbers and reconsider the droprates.
I think having a droprate of between 30 and 40% per container for filaments is okay for tier 4 sites. Lower tier filaments will mostly become worthless step by step, there isn’t really a way around it. The types of filaments that turn out to be runable fastest/safest might stay stable.
As for Mutaplasmids, there are different ways to look at it, but in every way the droprate is far too low.
The way I’m currently looking at it:
We have 81 different Mutaplasmids. That is 25 Module groups with 3 different tiers of Mutaplasmids and 6 Mutas for Ancillary modules.
Let’s assume I want to create a Muta-100MN Afterburner and I made up my mind about which stats I need to be better (PG), which should at least stay very close to how they are originally or better and on which stats I can compromise for the worse.
With a tiny bit of logic I know that this much less than perfect roll must be considered rare nonetheless. Most rolls will completely brick any module, many more will have something not right etc.
Let’s say I run the numbers and come up with a 1 in 100 chance to roll it if I use Type X of Mutaplasmid and Type Y of the base module. 1 in 100 is really not bad - it also tells that what I want from that module is not too far off from what it already offers.
Since my most important criteria is lowered PG, I already chose the Y-S8 Compact (Meta T1) as a base. Lucky me, I get a 100 of those for roughly 10M ISK.
Now, I also need 100 x 100MN Mutaplasmids and not just any, but let’s say Gravid, as Decayed can’t reach what I need. 100 - that is me being optimistic enough that the average will be on my side and sceptic enough to not trust in RNG Jesus coming to help.
Since averages are so cool, I know that I need to collect 8100 Mutaplasmids for a fair chance of 100 of them being the one I need. (Okay, being optimistic here, as Gravid won’t drop as often as Decayed).
I end up running 13500 Abyssal Sites for it, because I was so smart and ran Tier4. Had I chosen a lower tier I’d probably had to run twice or thrice that if not more.
The professional I am, it took me only 10 minutes per site on average, all preparations, loadout and loot stashing included. That’s only 2250 hours for 1 slightly better Afterburner.
Now I wouldn’t only have gotten that though. I also got 8000 other Mutaplasmids in these 2250 hours, which are - after all - only 281.25 days if played 8 hours a day.
However, the fact of the matter is that
a) 100 of a type isn’t a high estimate for a good-ish roll
b) if the drops of Mutas had equal chances 8100 drops would need to happen for these 100 to be available/come into existance.
c) for 8100 drops to happen, presumeably around 81000 Tier1 sites (10% ish), 42000 Tier2 sites (20% ish) or 13500 Tier4 sites would need to be run
d) for 100 of a type to exist, a very low estimate is 2 months 24/7 active player time needs to happen (assuming all kinds of things going better than statistics would suggest)
Which leads to
e) this is crap
Simple as that.
If both the decreased chance on good-ish rolls and the low droprate stay like they are, this will be a module sink for a few weeks until people figure it out and blame CCP for wasting Dev time on useless mechanics.
Edit:
I ignored the fact that some Mutaplasmids will be more desired by players than others. Players will figure it out and I think this itself will be interesting and will surely make certain Mutas more expensive than others.
Also, my conclusion is not meant to be a rant. If CCP decides this is the way to go, I won’t waste my time to flame or cry or any of that. Now is the time to run numbers, estimate where we need to and draw scenarios which are admittedly nothing more than more or less educated guesses.
If these consistently lead us to find that Mutaplasmids would become pretty meaningless, I think we need to speak up.
Personally, I’d like to see them find a good place in EVE. However, nothing is worse than them becoming the fail-meme of the year. I’d rather have CCP get rid of them altogether than throwing them in the game with the current stats.
4 Likes
I agree wholeheartedly.
1 Like
I’m not sure it’s how it should be considered.
EDIT : the following assumes that the mutation probability is homogeneous over the range of values, which is NOT truth. We don’t know.
IMO you should take a module group(AB, mwd, etc.) and size (10mn, large armor rep), then decide among the range of stats which one is good enough for you.
eg I pick a web and I want a 11km minimum range, 63% minimum web str (bad CPU/capa I don’t care)
I should start with each web and check the probability to have corresponding stats with each muta
eg if I look at the T2 web,
- decayed can’t give me 63% web
- gravid goes from 57 to 64.2 % web, that means a range of 1.2 (=64.2-63) out of 7.2(=64.2-7).
range goes from 9 to 11.5 ie 0.5/2.5 (=20% chance)
that means I need to run 7.2*2.5/1.2/0.5 = 30 mutations average to get a web good enough. - unstable goes from 54 to 66 web str, ie a chance of 3/12
range from 8 to 12 km, ie 1/4 chance
total I need to run 12*4/3=16 mutations to have a “good enough” web, average.
This mean that I need to pay 16* (web T2+unstable) OR 30*(webT2+gravid), whichever is the lowest.
Then of course we can consider a fed (or shadow) web with 14km range and 60% str:
- range can’t go below 11.2 km so iut’s 100%
- gravid thus becomes 1/5 chance and
- unstable becomes 1/4 chance
Thus I can chose the lowest form the four above or : 4*(shadow web +unstable), 5*(shadow web+gravid)
Then of course the price of the muta will depend on the time required to get one.
2 Likes
The filament drop rate is more concerning than the mutaplasmid droprate/mutation%.
The availability of L2+ pockets will be the baseline for supply of Trig pocket loot.
Too many filament drops will lead to “content on demand” spamming, to the effect that players in “safe” locations wont have to fly anywhere, and just spam the pockets they generate from filaments in them.
At 12 filaments from 5 xL4, it basically means a player can generate an indefinite amount of filaments, and never have to buy a L1 filament again.
I think this is irrational.
The filament supply progressing from the initial L1 pocket, should taper off to zero as they “escalate” to L5, not expand by generating more and more filaments, like a tree growing and providing more and more fruit.
I hope this is just a temporary SiSi thing, where filament drops are high so that players can run more of them for test purposes of the pocket NPC mechanics.
1 Like
Same.
2 Likes