Discussion Of The Implications Of Niarja's Invasion

[Haulie_Berry]

@Katarina_Neeko

24/7 hard core gate camp… just look at zKillboard

There is currently a small camp on the Kaaputenen gate, and nothing but triangles on the Madirmilire and Bahromab gates.

The campers could easily be cleared by a sufficiently motivated group.

Edit:

Here’s your 24/7 unstoppable hellcamp, kids.

dscan.info - D-Scan Tool for EVE Online

[Chadwikk]

@Daichi_Yamato

Unbelievable.

I attacked him now?

See you man you are a complete waste of time at this point, nice try on the debate though. You see the difference of someone who is arguing in bad faith is when Merin told me I might have mischaracterized his argument I asked him for clarification. When I said that to you, you just ignored what I said and brought it up 4 more times as If I was defending everything the guy ever said.

Later

[Chadwikk]

@Merin_Ryskin

Please do not build straw man arguments. I did not object to people doing that in relative safety (as exists now), I objected to Darlo’s demand to remove literally all PvP from highsec .

I am literally asking you to clarify your point so that I don’t strawman it. You clearly don’t want to clarify it because you know it will contradict everything you have said in the past if you do.

[Merin_Ryskin]

@Chadwikk

I am literally asking you to clarify your point so that I don’t strawman it. You clearly don’t want to clarify it because you know it will contradict everything you have said in the past if you do.

You asked me “what is the problem with this”, I answered that I have no problem with it and was responding to something entirely different. I have no idea why you are so stubbornly pursuing this argument.

[Jayce_Fitzpatrick]

Arh, the good old “Should highsec be completely safe?” argument in a thread that is about something else.

[Chadwikk]

Clearly you don’t have a problem with people staying in HS to farm in relative safety based off your previous posts. Now out of nowhere you are acting like I am making a strawman argument as if you didn’t make all these posts lmao. This is a beatdown sry bro.

@Merin_Ryskin

WAAAAAAAH MISSION FARMING ISNT A MENIAL TASK ANYMORE I HAVE TO WORK FOR MY ISK.

@Merin_Ryskin

Only in a relative sense, compared to the broken state of highsec that preceded it. In reality it’s pretty poor game design. It’s a major step in the direction of theme park design over the sandbox, and it replaces player agency with NPCs. At most we should acknowledge that CCP did a less-bad thing, possibly even the best they could do given their refusal to create engaging PvP content in highsec.

@Merin_Ryskin

Legitimate PvE players are the PvE players who understand that EVE’s mining/industry/etc side is a game of competitive capitalism where other players are rivals and threats to your income. They are the players who, when a war is declared against them, continue operations as normal because they know how to win a war. Those players hate people like you and your opposition to PvP because when CCP panders to you by making PvE easier it makes PvE less profitable.

@Merin_Ryskin

No, I don’t. I genuinely do not understand how you could want to play EVE without engaging in combat PvP, mining, industry, exploration, or any other activity involving other players. It’s like buying a new FPS game, ignoring all of the guns, and spending your entire time walking around an empty server looking at the scenery.

@Merin_Ryskin

Highsec needs to have risk and difficulty. Players like you whined and cried until CCP nerfed PvP, so now you get to deal with risk and difficulty in the form of challenging NPCs interrupting your activities. The Triglavians are a direct result of CCP realizing their mistake in going too far in favor of making highsec a menial farming game.

@Merin_Ryskin

Nonsense. It is great for EVE when weak players ragequit at the first sign of adversity.

@Merin_Ryskin

I suppose I will correct my statement slightly: it’s not the sort of customer that CCP should want. Whether or not their new owners are willing to kill the long-term future of EVE in exchange for extracting more F2P cash shop money from the whales is a valid question.

@Merin_Ryskin

Bolded the important part. Have you tried leaving highsec?

[Merin_Ryskin]

@Chadwikk

Clearly you don’t have a problem with people staying in HS to farm in relative safety based off your previous posts.

Key point: relative safety. Nice job continuing to build that straw man by quoting posts arguing against people objecting to any difficulty and insisting that highsec be a minimal-effort, minimal-risk farming game where you endlessly repeat the same menial task and never face any adversity.

This thread is a textbook example: doom and gloom and predictions of EVE’s impending death because certain players are unwilling to face any adversity whatsoever by leaving highsec at any point, turning a single system (which they didn’t bother to defend adequately) into an impassible obstacle.

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Chadwikk

When I said that to you, you just ignored what I said and brought it up 4 more times as If I was defending everything the guy ever said.

Becuase what’s the point?

You said i was a pro-pvper but i never claimed to be.
You said i think pvp sandbox only means ship pew pew but i never said that and neither did merin.
You jumped in to defend a guy even though you didn’t agree with him and didn’t know what the argument was about.
Now you say I’ve attacked him but not his arguments, but i bet you couldn’t quote me on such an attack…

This whole time you’ve been making up my words in your head. The very reason you joined the thread is because of your misunderstanding.

@Roan_Pico

Just ignore him like i do after his second reply to me, making up ■■■■, strawmans and twisting so it fits, not worth the time.

You’re right. This has been exhausting. The guy reads words and then goes completely overboard with his inference.

[Chadwikk]

@Jayce_Fitzpatrick

Arh, the good old “Should highsec be completely safe?” argument in a thread that is about something else.

Sorry man I was really trying to discuss the main topic with them but it kept going to semantics of words and taking specific sentences out of context. Because these implications of these systems flipping are big on the way many people play the game. What the conversation really comes down to is do you believe people who enjoy play in HS only, farm in relative safety, and don’t PVP at all are a valid part of the game of the game that should be allowed to keep their playstyle. I kept trying to dig deeper with them on that topic because most people who support the implications of this stuff seem to think that playstyle is somehow bad for the game, so I wanted them to logically walk me through their thought process on why exactly it was bad for the game. It didn’t seem to work out as most were concerned with the personality of one guy and how I didn’t know him, or how people are care bears, or how they didn’t said what they clearly said many times.

[Buoytender_Bob]

Sigh, why do I think the ISD will make another visit soon?

[Merin_Ryskin]

@Chadwikk

why exactly it was bad for the game.

Because EVE is supposed to be a PvP-focused sandbox game of warfare, empire building, and competitive capitalism, not a menial farming game where you passively watch your wallet numbers go up? I can’t believe you’re seriously asking for an explanation of why EVE needs at least some degree of difficulty.

Again, look at this thread: one system is being treated as an impossible obstacle and reason to quit the game because these people are unwilling to make even one jump outside of highsec. Even the smallest hint of adversity is too much and they demand its removal.

[Jayce_Fitzpatrick]

There’s the possibility to just create a new thread and then mention (@Chadwikk) the ones you’re discussing with instead of trashing up another thread.

I mean, I’m all for keeping the forums as garbage. Recently though, there’s been a desire from other forum regulars to keep the forums cleaner. So as a reasonable individual, I’m just calling out the obvious.

[Immaminestuff]

Okay guys… its the journey that counts… not the destination. >.> Whats an extra 30-40 jumps, its not like you need to put gas in your ship. >.>

“In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity.”
Albert Einstein

“If opportunity doesn’t knock, build a door.”
Milton Berle

[Destiny_Corrupted]

If Uedama also gets sliced, that would be the best outcome for the game. Cut off Caldari from the rest of high-sec, and leave the connection between Gallente/Minmatar/Amarr, with Minmatar acting as the central “hub” space area of sorts.

[Daichi_Yamato]

After a little shopping in hek and rens, I think minmatar space could really use the attention.

[Herzog_Wolfhammer]

You see? If you don’t go to Rancer, Rancer comes to you.

[Nathan_Rolk]

@Aaaarrgg

i guess you mean npc killed that pod, i am all in favour of that how many npc have you killed, none of which had clones like you . everyone should pod everyone always

Well, ‘Sir’, imagine HS ganking would be banned from now on. Thus CCP sh*ttin all over your and CODES playstyle. That would not only cause more new players to stay in Eve online and eventually grow into real PvP, but also make you cry. How can someone stick to such a toxic playstyle for so many years? I will never understand.
I guess CCP prefers the reliably plexing boxer over the new unique player here.
shrugs

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Nathan_Rolk

Well, ‘Sir’, imagine HS ganking would be banned from now on.

Has hauling been banned?

[Nathan_Rolk]

@Merin_Ryskin

WAAAAAAAH MISSION FARMING ISNT A MENIAL TASK ANYMORE I HAVE TO WORK FOR MY ISK.

Sounds like things are working as intended.

This is exactly what i mean: people who don’t want other people to play the way they want to. Weird view! L3-4 mission running is not really making money. How much can you make an hour? I don’t know what ‘working’ in this context means to you, but i’ll let you be. Meanwhile Incursion fleets printing between 120 and 500m ISK/h. You are welcome!

Keep in mind that humans who want something different from this game are paying customers to CCP the same way you might be. And the whole concept of different security status evoles around satifying those paying customers desires.

@Merin_Ryskin

No you can’t. The goals of the people who want a menial farming game with no risk and free ISK everywhere are incompatible with those who want a PvP-focused game of warfare and competitive capitalism. The only way you can have this farming game is to create an entirely separate server where they can’t destroy the market.

OHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOO MA MARKET DISTROOHYED! 3/4 OF EVE ONLINE PvP AREA - TOOO FEW!! CCP FIX EEETTT, BURN EVERTHING DOWN. (Just to talk in trollish and you can understand me)

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Nathan_Rolk

This is exactly what i mean: people who don’t want other people to play the way they want to. Weird view!

It has always been said: “people can play any way they want to, as long as they’re willing to accept that players are able to play in a way that affects others against their will.”

And certain other people have in turn said: “no, playing the way you want to means that no one should be able to affect how you play, unless you allow them to.”

And that’s the essence of the debate that’s been going on for the past 17 years.