Dissatisfaction about large battles

After GM’s recommendation (as he said “that you consider highlighting your concerns to the CSM as well”) I just repost here my petition which i sent to CCP.
For six years of playing Eve online there were times when I contacted the support service and I am deeply grateful for help and responsiveness. However, I have never had the reason to contact the developers of the game. Overall, I can say that I still enjoy playing Eve, despite the changes that have been made for the past few year, the changes which I personally (and many others, according to the statements of the community on forums) dislike. Moreover, seems like the developers do not want to listen to players’ opinions. Unfortunately, for me it appears that the developers pretend like listening to the players, but still stick with their ideas and introduce them even if it provides the negative reaction of the majority of players. But I am forced to write this petition by another problem, which outrages me to the point where I cannot keep being silent. I am talking about the events of the past months, to be clear – about the new great war between Legacy Coalition/PanFam (PAPI) and The Imperium.

I want to express my resentment to the developers regarding their either helplessness or incapacity, or maybe even unwillingness, to provide with proper technical conditions for suitable organizing of large-scale battles. Shame, shame and once again shame. You enjoy the new records, proudly announcing it everywhere (here are few examples of the official cite: “If you’ve been following the news about the Guinness World Record set during the battle then you’ll probably know that the number of peak concurrent characters in local was 6,557 which was hit at 18:16, however system population was extremely high for the duration of the 12-hour battle”, “Records will inevitably continue to fall in New Eden. It seems like every other year there’s another war, a bigger battle and more incredible stories that capture the imagination not just of EVE Online players but the gaming world at large. “, “The ongoing war in New Eden has seen some of the largest and bloodiest battles in EVE’s history. The war has already claimed two official Guinness World Records, whilst also breaking many other EVE records, including a record number of battleships killed in one battle, and a record number of Titans destroyed in another”), however you do not speak about the time, patience and nerves the players waste because of the horrible lagging during the large-scale battles. But why speaking of large-scale battles?! After the last super record – which should be listed in the records of technical disgrace of the game industry (talking about the battle in M2-XFE the 2nd timer) – the time dilation was remaining in all neighbor systems for the following days even with locale of 1000 pilots and less. You should not scream and shout about some records, but humbly sit and solve the real problems, which distract people from enjoying your game. You are not the ones who achieve those records, but the players. Those, who pay their money to enjoy the game and not sit and watch the still picture on the screen.

As a user, I am not really interested in the technical part, I do not understand anything in it – it is your job and responsibility. I am as a player want to enjoy, and not to waste my time and patience on the game, when it lags in jumps between the systems, without knowing if my ship is alive or already dead. This problem is not new at all. This is the trouble – you still have not solved it. And evidently you are not going to.

The reconstruction of the trade station in Jita seems more important for you. It is highly ”necessary” for suitable hold of serious battles. Fireworks and colorings of the ships are more important to you than the capacity to control them in a battle. For you the animations and visual effects of passing through the gates and portals are more important than passing in time itself and entering the battle in few minutes, not in an hour. You introduce changes to inspire the pilots for even greater PVP, but cannot provide with normal conditions for large battles. But those large battles give you the records. They change the map, influence the economy and the future of alliances. In the battle the strength of a player is shown, as well as the unity of a team and the skill to perform their role in a fleet. Pilots enjoy the battles, which give them the peak of adrenaline, the feeling that you cannot get from small-scale clashes. Such serious battles happen rarely, but for them you have to create all needed conditions so the pilots are filled with pleasure and interest, not irritation.

I ask you to give the chance to enjoy the game and large-scale battles! To enjoy, and not to suffer from the thought of a battle, where lag and disconnect take place that discourage to participate in the battle.

People who understand more in programming than me say that you have to rewrite the code of the game from the start to solve this problem. For all these years you could have done something with this. Maybe you have to build the new ship, where should move the crew to continue the journey, and stop painting/decorate the old rusty one which is full of racks and ready to explode?..

When players no longer enjoy the game, they leave it. Enough of the fireworks, coloring, useless skins and lavish statements about the records – do the important part, pay proper attention to valuable things.

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Everytime CCP upgrades the servers, we players jam more people into a single fight and the same issues happen again. There is no easy way to fix that n+1 -issue.


i am sure that is not easy. but as i said - CCP give more attention to decorations than the technical things. for several years same problems exists.

And it will keep existing until either we find a way to get higher clock-speeds from the processors or figure out a reliable way to spread the load to multiple cores without it messing up everything. Both options will take many years to figure out.

soo until then, may be CCP in situation that the large battle will take place, just make some kind of huge arena with same number of pilots from both sides. The number which give a normal conditions for enjoyable battle. may be randomly taken from the battlefield system. may be random doctrine or the announced one and different on each side. may be with specifically numbers of different ship categories (for example,200 battleships, 500 cruisers, 50 interceptors, 10 titans and so on). May be need to do more than one round, given the chance to involve next group of pilots to fight. set the timer how long will be the round or restriction max % fleet should lost. i don’t know…
i like large battles, but i don’t participate in them anymore for reasons i already said. it is sad…

there was no reason to create two topics like this… if you’d rather this one be here, report your other topic to the ISD’s and ask them to merge it with this one

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That is not how Eve works though. This is not a game of tournament-fights to figure out who wins the war in nullsec. It’s all upon us. Is the current situation optimal? No. Is the current situation the best it can be at the current technology? Yes.

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Performance of the game has been going down the toilet these past few years and the results of the second M2 timer battle encapsulates a problem and the solution at the same time.

CCP doesn’t want to be bothered to solve this issue by continually upgrading just for these singular events only to be blamed as spitting on millions of hours lost of progress from thousands of players being instantly flushed out of existence because they have again pushed the servers to their limits.

The framework of this now is players can expect CCP not to be bothered to make the game perform better for them and the solution is to understand not to have these kinds of battles anymore or at least not without expecting and accepting the same results.

This isn’t like CCP changing a long standing mechanics that everyone has modeled their strategies around for years throwing all that knowledge into disarray or introducing some new insane mechanic that has no logical relation to how the game is actually played.

In this case they don’t determine the limits of the game nor how we choose to play up to those limits. We did, we blobbed together huge fleets and made servers break and now we get the results we created ourselves and CCP warned us many times for years that what happens is not on them but us.

Why should they lift a finger when they don’t have to. We can learn from our mistakes and choose to do things that don’t make problems CCP don’t want to solve for us. It’s their job to create new problems for us to solve or that is how it seems to be now.

I’d like to drop a video where a person talks about why people enjoy video games so much and how things can go in a wrong direction when you can no longer operate your perception of reality within defined limits (server limits or constantly changing mechanics in a game where players put a lot of time into planning how they play) and how things can get out of hand and go in a bad direction.

The video references WoW as an example (for like 5 seconds) but the relation and reason behind what he says also applies to Eve online:

On one hand it tells how we fooled ourselves by thinking we could just continually pushing the limits of the game without expecting what happened, to happen. On the other hand it relates about how CCP has really messed up the player experience by changing it so much that the natural way we enjoyed and thought out how we played has now been pushed into the realm of delusion and nonsense.

We put all this work into figuring out how to succeed in the game and every time CCP finds some way to flip the board and set as back where we started. After so much time previously invested gets wasted we start to feel dissatisfied and so we lose interest and the value of something we once saw just doesn’t exist to us anymore. We lose interest, we grow tired, we move on…to other things, games, etc.

I always said the death of this game would be slow and the result of CCP’s actions alone that would eventually push players away and in the end CCP being the ones to pull the plug. It might just be an opinion but I think CCP wants to end Eve online someday and maybe this is how they hope to achieve it without being blamed for pulling the plug on an alive game that has so many players who have invested chunks of their lives to it and never wanting it to end.

If they stopped this game say 4 years ago out of nowhere I think there would be a lot of outrage then. Now give us another 4 years of this slope we are going down and people will be convinced CCP are putting us out of our misery and doing us a favor by ending it then.

Just an opinion.

Yeah, so this is CCP’s forever war. They keep increasing the ability for players to have larger and larger battles, and players keep cramming more and more swinging dicks and flapping vaginas into battles. CCP has already made incredible progress, and they continue their work still.

Moreover, Eve is a relatively small game (15% the population of WoW), that hosts the largest battles in all of gaming. So, not only must CCP do something that no one else in the industry is doing, but they have to do it on a fraction of the budget that the titans in the industry have.

Shame? How about giving them props.

Also, can I have your stuff.

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It’s been going down the toilet because we players keep ramming in more characters into each fight. This has been happening since Eve was released.

There is no easy fix to this. We are already using pretty much the top of the line stuff and CCP are working all the time on lightening the load from the main simulation-thread to other cores to let us have more people in the same fight.

Again: There is no easy fix to this issue. You are basically blaming CCP for not breaking the rules of physics and not being able to come up with a CPU that runs at 10 GHz.

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They are working on it, constantly and quietly to avoid unrealistic expectations, such as jumping 6k people into a system full of 6k people.

Direct quote from someone who was at a games developer conference where CCP Hilmar gave a speach-
" He said in a Q&A after the main session that they are slowly and quietly refactoring the code base over time, but are staying relatively quiet in order to avoid setting unrealistic expectations. However the phrase “tens of thousands” of players on-grid was used about the far future hopes/plans."

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I don’t know exactly how this garbage operates and I doubt CCP knows as much as they claim either but speaking of lightening the load I notice a lot of changes they make over the years actually decrease performance for the individual player… maybe instead of trying to always increase the total potential of player numbers in a system with everything they keep adding that slows down the game for us they can instead decrease the minimum requirements for each individual being in the same system?

Also would the game run better if we were forced to play in potato mode during tidi? Does this make sense? Maybe I am wrong and that it is the other way around if we are slower then our input is delayed more giving the system more time to gather itself.

Just some thoughts.

I hope they continue to raise the cap. Big battles are the one thing that sets Eve apart from every other online game.

As far as the server is concerned, your ship is a point with a vector for direction and velocity. The server does not care how your game looks and it has nothing to do with how well the game works in big fights. Turning down graphics can help your client run bit better, but it doesnt fix the problem that the server has.

I understand your frustration, but this sentence right here explodes the rest of the wall of text that you wrote. You aren’t interested in the tech part, and you don’t understand anything about it. Yet you have no embarrassment coming here and screaming that you deserve better, even though it’s clear you don’t have any idea how good we’ve actually got it.

There is no other game on this planet that could handle what happens in EVE on a daily basis. There are no 2000+ person battles multiple times a week in any other game. When the world records for most players playing concurrently in the same place are made, they are made in this game, and they are broken in this game.

There is no where else to get this kind of activity. The servers work far better now than they ever have in the past, and that’s due to CCP continuing to innovate and work to counter our desire to shove more and more people into every fight.

I think you do yourself and the company a disservice by pounding on the table Veruca Salt-style with “FIX IT NOW.”

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