Do you think eves population is declining or incresing and why

We’ll see.

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Well the problem with these questions is its all relative, some see a decline while others see a rise, to some eve is getting better others its getting worse, this is the nature of bad data. Or rather not complete data.

We the players will not see exactly how many people play eve (not alts) just the pcu and that is a poor source for actual player count as far as I understand.

What I find a more interesting thought is how many people do we want? How many people can new eden take? For a moment just imagine what it would be like if there was for example, 200k players daily not 30k. And then ask your self, is that something you would want?

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More players, more content and more green lines on my killboard.

I think 200k players playing at one point would be amazing.

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That spike is from the introduction of alpha clones.

Yes, that would be awesome. Trying to do highsec anoms would probably suck. It’s already annoying with the changes to dailies, but it’s a worthwhile sacrifice to have more people playing the game.

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The only giving up I see is you on the char you are posting on…which does not appear to have done anything in 6 months. Clearly Eve was too hard for you, and thus CCP are doing everything right.

Can I have all your stuff ?

There really isn’t any way to know for sure.
I don’t think about it much at all anyway. Every system I enter there are between 2 and 15 characters in local. I don’t waste a second thinking if they are alts or part of a multibox or botting operation, to me each one has good chances to shoot and shut me down. I don’t know how many systems are empty and for how long and I don’t care because they are system I will never operate in.
It feels that New Eden is fairly populated. You can take a ship to Lowsec and get it exploded in no time so if there aren’t enough players at least the core of the game is still very much vibrant.


core of the game

I think this game is very complicated to manage due to having a real economy. It is easy to screw up.

But I think it’s also one of the better games on today’s market. And it is very underappreciated. It should have a far higher number of players but it has a poor reputation with your average gamer being afraid of losing their ship, and general lawlessness and chaos. That’s the perception. None of my friends will play it which annoys me greatly.

CCP should hire a top marketing professional to maximize their advertising and put a lot more resources into bringing new players in. That said once that happens they should probably do some things to help new players adjust to the game.

First I’d have a repeatable security quest for all factions where you can queue for a duel with another sub-5M SP account. Queue would require you to be in your pod, and it would put you in a basic fitted ship of your choice (kite, brawl, scram fits). It would be of your starting faction and fitted T1, available for both frigate and destroyer. Since the game spawns you in the ship you don’t keep it whether you win or lose. This would lead players to accept the nature of the game and remove some of the fear many seem to have about losing ships.

Second I’d clean up the PVE missions. They’re buggy and some of them have poor descriptions. Spend some time and effort overhauling them. Don’t need to get fancy with voiceovers or anything but a mission menu that allows for restarting them and managing them with improved convenience would be nice. Also they should be more clear on what ship level is required, maybe with suggested DPS, EHP tank, etc included for your fits.

Third I’d have the fitting menu automatically grey out equipment you’re not trained for. Also include some quests to explain fitting would be nice.

Lastly since there will be an FPS element in this game then allowing for moving in stations would be nice. I don’t really care personally about that but a lot of new players would. And it would bring in more folks. Just make sure there’s variety with it before you implement it. I have to admit it would be kind of cool to get a mission to go talk to an agent and meet them in a bar in Jita for example, stuff like that would enrich the game.

If they do those things and advertise well I think they could harness a lot more income from this fine game.


It effectively already does. In addition to being able to block out parts that simply won’t fit the ship from the list, you already get notified if you don’t have the skills for any particular part. This does not always work so well for CPU and power generation though, which is why power management should be among the first skills trained.

If people weren’t interested in PvP to begin with because of some hangup, giving themselves the option to put themselves in an artificial matchmaking meaningless arena is not going to do anything.

What does it fix? „I can’t get a 1v1 fight easily against a very specific kind of ship against my skill level so I’m never going to try PvP“? That person does not have the mindset to succeed in the first place. They have a failing attitude so no sense trying to spend resources creating an artificial minigame to try to cater to it.

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I mean. There’s lots of people who I’ve seen over the years who are interested in PVP. But for the simple fact of, you’re probably gonna lose several dozen ships while you’re learning, and even if you prevail in PVP… a lot of the time it’s not a money making endeavor. Other MMOs have significantly higher player percentages that actively engage in PVP at all levels on account of how little is “lost” in those games.

Sure some corps have ship replacement programs of various degrees of robustness but many also don’t or are poor about managing them. Income is slow for low SP characters, and anything outside of a T1 frigate will probably represent a couple hours of farming for such a low sp character. And frankly a lot of “PVP corps” are really unprepared to accept newer players in terms of training, equipment, and social engagement in voicechat/ingame chat.

About the same thing Arenas do in literally every other MMO I’d guess. Fast access to solo or small group PVP content with few if any strings attached.

Of course I don’t feel that CCP should have to fix this problem themselves when there’s a very simple player driven fixes. Corps that insist they’re PVP oriented could step up their game when it comes to maintaining supplies of ships/equipment local to wherever they operate. Testing with a few alts over the years (as this be my PVE account to fund other activities), many are rush rush “You should come join us where the fun is”. Then I arrive and there’s literally nothing available to use for ships/equipment, and no one in the corp is willing to haul an industrial full of Rifters or Merlins down for me even if I pay them because “that’s boring”.

If some newbie has to spend 30+ minutes flying a new ship in from Jita every time they lose one… it’s a pretty obvious thing that they’ll get bored and disengage from PVP because much if not most of their time is spent not-PVP, and instead soloing logistics in preparation for PVP.

Yeah, I figured. If someone is afraid of losing an actual, hard-earned-with-ISK ship, then they’re still going to be afraid of losing an actual, hard-earned-with-ISK ship after playing some made up instanced arena. And an instanced arena of made-up ships with meaningless combat isn’t going to fix the latter and be a “money making endeavor” either.

They’re going to have to face their fear and learn how to deal with it on their own terms. They’re gonna have to learn how to improve themselves. How to not bull-:poop: themselves. Having friends and a good corp helps, as they can take the plunge together. Once they’ve lost 20 or so T1 frigates out in the real, shared single universe they should be well on their way to get over their mental block, and on the standard Eve core gameplay loop:

  1. Research & Plan with what you know
  2. Prepare
  3. Execute
  4. Eventually, lose a ship
  5. Reflect & Learn
  6. Go to step 1

Losing a ship is not failure. Failure is not completing this core game loop.

Yeah, and that is why PvP is almost completely meaningless in those games. The loss makes it real.

I firmly agree with you there.

That’s step 2 in the gameplay loop. People fall out of the core gameplay loop at various steps. This is not a game about login and instant gratification with immediate content on your doorstep. Part of the draw of the PvP in Eve Online is the hidden everything that leads up to a spaceship explosion. The miner who mined the materials, ran a BPC job, built the thing from the BPC, hauled it to market, sold it to market, bought by a rookie, hauled by themselves or a corp mate, boarded by the rookie, flown in a fleet, dodging higher skilled players, engaging with a potential target, and someone going boom.

If someone hands me or sells me a ship for fleet, I say “thank you” because it’s a lot that makes that moment happen.

So if you lose a 5M isk ship after 30 mins of hauling, in Step 5 it’s recommended to self-reflect, review OBS footage even, and learn lessons from the encounter that are worth 5M ISK and 30m worth of hauling.

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I see more fratsbots then actualy human player since the havoc update

These are some curious attitudes to take. It conveys a distinct impression of “I am a fearless mighty (keyboard) warrior, and those who don’t PvP are lazy, cowardly, self-deceiving wastrels”.

Hate to break it to you, Io, but dunking on guys out missioning (letting an NPC do half the work) or guys in strip-fit T1 frigates doesn’t really make you a space samurai.

And for the majority of EVE players, it’s pretty clear the question isn’t “Why am I too afraid to PvP?” and far more “Heck, why would I even bother to PvP?”. It’s essentially a pointless waste of time for most players, that benefits them in no actual way.

In fact, if there are any ‘hangups’ involved, it’s almost certainly on the part of the folks who spend hours cruising space looking for fights they’re 98% likely to win, just in order to feel good about themselves.

Not bothering to participate in EVE PvP isn’t about an inability to master some mental block. It’s about the fact that it’s a pointless waste of time for many playstyles.

This may come as a shock to you, but other people choosing to play the game differently than you do doesn’t constitute failure.

You should try looking at the larger game with a little less tunnel vision, and more of an open mind. People do the things in a game that feel rewarding to them, and they ignore the parts of the game that give them little or no reward. Sadly, in EVE, ‘PvP’ is one of those things that’s mostly only rewarding to a minority of players.

Rather than focusing on the flaws you’ve imagined in other players, it might be worthwhile to focus on the flaws in EVE’s PvP system.


You don’t say what does have a point in Eve. Simply making ISK ? To what end ? PvE content that you might just as well play in Homeworld without paying $20 a month for a subscription ? Grinding endless repetitive missions ? Yawn !

Fact is, PvP is the only thing in Eve that provides a sufficient element of uncertainty and actual engagement with other people that MMOs are supposed to be all about. And yes…that higher level of uncertainty and risk is precisely why many don’t PvP. And why they have a dog in a manger ’ I can’t do this…so nobody should’ stance towards those who do.

Kezrai is a ‘know it all’ who likes to pretend they actually play the game, but I’ve never seen any evidence of it.

Bad at PvP, and dedicates endless essays to pretending this isn’t a PvP game.


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I don’t think the ‘hard earned’ is really the major part of it. In my case I have multiple billions and the ISK loss is no big deal. I think the bigger problem is the ’ I’ll be ready tomorrow’ syndrome where one uses lack of skills as an excuse. I’ve done that myself. It’s just one of those things where one has to keep pushing oneself. Like Mrs Doyle in Father Ted…a little voice in my head goes ’ aww…go on…go on…go on’.

Sadly, the river of your ignorance flows too wide and deep for me to change it’s course. Entirely missing the point is just par for the course for you. Still, because there are others with greater comprehension who may benefit, I’ll oblige.

EVE is an imaginary space-pixel game. It doesn’t have ‘a’ point. It has multiple points, all determined entirely by the view of the player. Players play games to experience something they appreciate. Not something you appreciate.

The context you missed as it whooshed on over your head, was that PvP is “a pointless waste of time for many playstyles”. Their playstyles, not yours. I know this will be difficult for you to grasp, but the universe isn’t centered on you, and nobody else is under obligation to match your prejudices.

Some players simply like the notion of feeling productive, of making things that other people will use. Some players like the idea of exploration, or of feeling like they’re a space merchant. Some players like the vicarious risk. Some players simply like to look at the graphics as they fly their ship around.

An acquaintance once rather angrily pointed out that online games were for those “addicted to an illusion of achievement”. Which is true enough, I suppose. And different people choose different illusions to partake.

Not everyone is so wrapped up in themselves as to believe their own particular illusion is the one and only “true” way to play.


I am someone who does not mainly partake in PVP activities. I recognize that without PVP, there would be no point to my playstyles. Everything I make and everything I use, has value because of PVP. PVP is integral to this game, even if you don’t want to partake in the act. I recognize that this game’s central point is conflict, it was created with the intent of conflict. Players should know this going into the game…and most do. It’s thrown in the face of anyone watching ads or content creators. Players consent to PVP when they download the game, it’s not hidden that PVP exists throughout the game.

Please take this to heart, and don’t spread misinformation that EVE is populated mostly by PVE only players.

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And yet your killboard doesn’t lack for entries, does it? Small wonder you’d try to argue the “PvP is everything” viewpoint then.

Well, that’s fine. I’m not sure why it is that various people seem to take any discussion that PvP isn’t the one true axis of EVE as being “against PvP”. EVE has PvP, and PvE. EVE has, and has always had, about 3 times as much PvE as PvP. There is room for both of those aspects in EVE. And there is plenty of room for both of those aspects to get better.

I don’t argue that PvE is everything. I don’t argue that PvP is bad. I argue that EVE has some good points, and some fairly bad points. And that being blindly devoted to one ideology or another won’t help the bad parts get any better.

Well to be honest, the only misinformation here is that you think I said EVE is populated mostly by “PVE only” players. Not that that stance would be overly wrong - most of CCP’s own data shows EVE players do far more PvE than PvP. Regardless, hopefully you’ll take this to heart, and not spread misinformation about what I had to say.

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