Does the warp disrupt/scramble mechanic need re-imagining?


(Tirkibo) #1

Interested to know people’s thoughts on this. Fire away.


(Maekchu) #2


(Teinyhr) #3


(Nevyn Auscent) #4

In a way yes it does.
It’s a very binary mechanic that lends itself towards risk aversion. The inability for most fits to disengage once a fight has started means people only attack when certain and fly kitey fits to have the option to disengage.

However… changing intel to make life more grey as to what you are facing would probably create plenty of uncertain fights also. So it might not need changing if other things change


(Teinyhr) #5

This does, at least in my mind give some merit to the idea that warp prevention should perhaps be a bit more ECM -like, that it is not 100% sure way to pin someone down. Fairly reliable, of course, but there should be some way to counterplay them without completely gimping your fit. Maybe make the warp core stabs an activatable module that would give something like 30% chance (just spitballing numbers here) to break scram and give 1-2 second immunity.
Well, I suppose there’s the lockbreaker module, but that’s not an option for almost any fit, being a BS only module and lone BS’s are eaten alive almost anywhere.

Anyway, just throwing ideas around, dont take this too seriously.


(Rocket Hellfire) #6

Yes… also, can we please get rid of the overheating mechanic? This is my 10th, tenth, TENTH!! year in Eve and I’d rather be eternally tethered to afk cloaking than overheating. My preference is for both to burn in hell… but…


(Nevyn Auscent) #7

I’d propose a different change.
Remove WCS from the game (Almost everyone hates them anyway)
Build a functionality into the base ships, you can only turn it on if you are warp disrupted/scrammed.
Turning this on applies cumulative penalties to remote effects/dps to reflect more power being diverted to warp. (Including drones & reps).
Every X seconds, where X is based on ship class, you gain +1 to warp strength.

Eventually you will break free of any tackle under this, so people can’t keep you perma pointed, but it won’t be fast against a gang with a fair amount of tackle so they have time to kill you. You can’t spool it up beforehand to be able to warp regardless at the start of a fight, and PvE players can’t keep 1 pointing rat alive and spool it forever to instantly warp because of the DPS penalties.
Bonus points, give bubbles a low warp disruption strength so you can use this to break out of bubbles after a few minutes, but again at the cost of DPS.

Now we have a version of WCS built into your ship that allows you to disengage, but only if you can survive long enough, and at a penalty to make you not want to automatically start it at the start of a fight.
This means you can take a slightly chancy fight, and still break free if you think you have the tank.
The fact it is built in means you aren’t gimping your fit to be able to try and break free, which leaves you free to fit as you want, while still having some change to break out.

Alternatively you could go with built in ‘Warp Disruption Breaker’ with an RNG chance, but RNG chances people hate, and a cumulative building warp strength means it is easy to understand, and large gangs can hold you more than a solo player, so the solo player has to use it or lose it.

Either way it needs to be built in. As soon as it’s not built in you have to sacrifice your combat ability to be able to disengage (unless you are a kitey fit), and that means that you will have to disengage because you gimped your fighting ability.


(Herzog Wolfhammer) #8

Yes, actually.

I cannot figure out where, for example, a Rifter has enough power to disrupt warp bubble generation of a ship that is many times its own size.

They fixed Kestrels launching cruise missiles but they won’t fix frigates scrambling battleships?


(Arthur Aihaken) #9

Yes. Then again, most aspects of this game need reimagining as well… The whole concept of combat consisting of one player trapping another while a half dozen of his teammates dogpile onto the kill is really outdated.


(Daichi Yamato) #10

The chance of a warp disruption not working will lead to people feeling cheated by rng. Definitely not the way to go.

Likewise having to kill something before it can warp off is no small change. Kite fits sacrifice damage and tank for range and speed. If you change how tackle works you’re gonna have to rebalance combat as a whole or make a whole set of ships and mods useless.

And don’t forget kitey tackle is a great way for new players to get into pvp. If they can’t hold down a larger ship long enough for back up to get on grid you are making new players even less useful in pvp.

I think we can all tell this isn’t going to happen.


(R4d1o4ct1v3) #11

If there’s one thing about warp scram mechanics that needs to change, it’s the fact that dictors don’t get an aggression timer when they pop a bubble. It makes very little sense that they can pop a bubble on a gate, pinning everything on it down, and then crash through it to safety.

I mean, other AOE modules like firing off boosts is considered an aggressive acts, but trapping everything in a 20km range isn’t? Logic not found.


(DrysonBennington) #12

Scrambling a ship’s engine should require a lot of energy to do so. The transfer of energy needed to by-pass a ships shields, armor hull and interior defense systems is tremendous. Its similar to the hacking game where you have to find the correct path and defeat nodes in order to find the core.

You shouldn’t have to play the hacking game to scramble a ship but there should be a percentage or random roll that would be affected by skills to determine if you actually scramble or don’t scramble a ship.

The tears would be…legendary… to say the least.


(Nevyn Auscent) #13

Kitey fits still have a number of other advantages. For a start they won’t have to go through whatever steps we are proposing to escape tackle. They just pull range like they do currently.
Then there is the fact it’s often also to do with tank purposes.
So there is no danger of making kiting obsolete. Not even if all tackle options were removed.

Now the holding time is a fair question. This is hard to say, but what if it worked on a basis of something like, Start warp. When warp is blocked by a disruptor (I.e. you reach align speed), first cycle starts. First cycle is 1 minute plus base align time of fit. That gives plenty of time for back up to arrive. Then each subsequent cycle could be base align time. As an example.
This let’s frigates slip tackle fast, including bubbles (can remove nullification even at this point since it wouldn’t be needed), but that first minute is often enough to break a frigate, battleships will take a while especially if you get multiple points on them. So still breakable. Caps I haven’t checked the maths on.
Fleets would also tend to not all warp at once meaning you still get to kill the stragglers.
Would something along those lines solve most of the issues you raised?

Not that I expect it to happen mind you. But that doesn’t mean we can’t look at reaching a good idea.


(Tirkibo) #14

lol sounds about right.


(Solonius Rex) #15

You would know.


(Charley Varrick) #16

The best thing they could do for disrupt/scramble is to deal with bumping…which is a 100% work around of the disrupt/scramble mechanics making all related modules pointless.


(Jenn aSide) #17

Warp disruption is vital, when people can simply walk away from a fight, fights don’t happen, and that breaks the entire EVE online combat system.; There are already so many effective ways to not get caught/deny a fight that most of the time it’s frustrating trying to fight other people.

The real issue is that for a variety of reason ships in EVE are too easily destroyed (and maybe too easily replaced) so the only real gameplay is catching someone. IMO mainly because EVE ships are nothing more than single hit location bags of hit points rather than space ships with multiple sections and locations that can take damage or be disabled. For example, there is NO option to cripple and capture a ship in EVE


(Old Pervert) #18

I’d be more inclined to do this:

  • Give points a 30 second activation cycle and a 20 second duration
  • Give scrams a 20 second activation and a 15 second duration
  • Implement a minimum cap % needed for warp (kind of like jump drives but not nearly as high)
  • Using a point or a scram disrupts your own warp drive as well

Why?

  • Huge buff to bigger ships (such as BS) which are frequently at a disadvantage
  • Huge buff to brawling doctrines which are currently at a huge disadvantage
  • Increases fitting flexibility, in that conceptually, you could tackle a ship with just neuts. A point and/or scram is presently not optional. You need it. That makes it boring.
  • Makes cap stability a consideration in pvp, forcing one to think about their fits more
  • These changes would force both parties to be committed to a fight

(Salt Foambreaker) #19

No, it would become RNG, then people would weep, then the next thing you know it would be like ECM and get an unbelievably stupid nerf by people who don’t know how to play.


(Cypherous) #20

To answer the thread title

No

/thread