DST in High Sec

Yes this is another ganking thread, I’m just a curious player aren’t I?

The catalyst is a common ganking ship. DSTs have lots of tank. I wonder if they should not fear cats in high sec. I mean enough of any ship can overpower a tank, but in practice, after a certain amount of tank gankers like to use bigger ships.

My corpmates say they don’t have any practice doing so, but they’d probably go with hurricanes or something while admitting they had no idea if our well tanked Impels designed to fend of Kikimoras in low sec (has a thermal armor hardener and lots of armor) would need to fear the cats if someone needed to haul something from point A to B in high sec. Well since they admitted that this was one part of EVE they weren’t too familiar with, what do haulers think? Mining barges need to be weary of cats, but do DSTs have much to worry from them?

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Ganking is what makes cheap ships so wonderful. Make it not worth their while.

I learned the hard way you don’t auto pilot with a Leopard.

Usually the Talos, unless that has changed now.

Correct. a DST and even a Blockade runner have ALOT more tank then their t1 counterparts. As t1 haulers can literally be deleted by a gnosis or thrasher. So t2 haulers are many times safer. DSTs should always be worried of Ganks.

However, I would say differently for blockade runners. I have not been ganked on a gate-to-gate travel in my DST. Certainly, scanned many times. And if you see a blockade runner the guy is probably doing it wrong.

Zkillboard has a nice feature to search all DST losses in high sec.

I was interested, so I’ve gathered some information there.

Since 18 November:

  • 38 DST died in high sec
  • 17 Occators, 9 Bustards, 7 Impels, 5 Mastodons
  • 4 died to NPCs :joy:
  • 16 died to wardecs (from what I can tell, people from black flag and similar in T3Cs or other expensive ships probably aren’t suicide ganking - maybe some suspect baiting)
  • 18 died to ganks
    – 12 of those due to severe lack of tank
    (I mean really, people fit cargo expanders on DSTs Why would you do that? :open_mouth: )
    – one seemingly decent fit had chosen had an active armour fit - it seems like it was popped by Tornados before his repairs could help
    – one decently shield tanked fit had a T1 cloak so was not able to do the MWD+cloak trick
    – a few more ships didn’t have a cloak or propmod at all
    – Just one fit looks like a proper passive tanked EHP fit with MWD+cloak that I would personally feel comfortable flying in high sec. Poor guy got ganked by a bunch of Thrashers. I wonder what went wrong there.

Honourable mention

[Occator, Occator Cargo]

Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II

[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Medium Cargohold Optimization II
Medium Cargohold Optimization II

He got blapped by two tornados.

Ruptures, Thrashers, Coercers, Catalysts, Tornados - the groups of ganking ships is more diverse than I would have thought.

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Wait what? i thought the fleet hanger was like the ore hold which isn’t affected by these modules. Put some armor plates, exposive shield hardener (themal if you’re in an impel), a damage control, reinforced bulkheads, or even inertia stabilizers.

So cats are on the list.

I try to search by Impel and then I clicked “highsec” and it spat out all the high sec kills instead of the more refined “DST in high sec” I was looking for.

DSTs are tanky, but more importanly, unlike the t1 chubbies, DSTs can usually avoid getting damaged at all by suicide gatecampers in highsec by doing the cloaky microwarp align stunt. The dangerous part of the journey instead is the initial undock, because some NPC stations push you out at spawn positions that don’t allow you to redock again, while you’re too close to the station to cloak up nevertheless

Insta-warp bookmarks help with undock camps.

Most important though is that ganking an empty DST and thereby trading 10-ish destroyers for no loot is something that nullseccers might do to improve their zkill (which measures destroyed isk vs lost isk), but commercial Pirates won’t do that. So rather then attempting to avoid a dessie camp, be wary of “afk frigates” at stargates, because those are actually not afk, but armed with surpressed targeters and cargo scanners. If you get cargo scanned, and the gank group knows you’re full of expensive lootables, chances they give you a try are a lot higher then when they don’t know what will fall out of the DST. A DST also warps slow, which would enable the dessies to chase it into warp if they fail to lock it before it warps, wait for the DST at the gate it warped to, and take the gate once the DST jumped through, so they can retry clapping the DST in the next system. Don’t get cargo scanned.

Blockade Runners aren’t suicide ganked. Gankers consider it too much effort to do, and as they can’t scan what’s inside, so they’d be suiciding a battlecruiser or two potentially w/o getting anything in return.

It’s lowsec that’s dangerous, because some of the low campers are considerably more capable then the suicider campers, and will bump the DST while it’s cloaky aligning, which causes it to decloak and messes up the align. With the MWD engaged, the DST’s signature is penalized with a 500% modifier, so all the cruisers and battlecruisers at the camp will be are able to instalock the DST… and the signature penalty also magnifies the amount of damage that will be incoming

The T1 haulers are among the tankiest things in the game, actually. The ehp not being high doesn’t mean they can’t tank. (ok, the caldari ones actually really can’t). Fill all the many low slots of amarr or galente t1 haulers with Shield Power Relays and add some Shield Extenders and Field Purger rigs, put a scram in a mid and Shield Recharger in the remaining mids, and voila, 700~1000 ehp/s regenerating trollboat. You can swap the scram and for yet another Shield Recharger for even more ehp/s at the expense of being less troll-capable

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One of my corpmates panicked when he lagged so the MWD wore off before he could decloak. I pointed out no one was at the gate according to his screenshot. If there were a bunch of scary hurricanes, that would be trouble. Then I was wondering if the eve popular cat would be a threat. Would he need to panic if he lagged with cats at the gates?

I’m not really sure having low EHP makes a good trollboat. Your suggestion of a field purger which increases sig for no EHP seems dubious. That said the Sigil can get hilarious high EHP for a T1 trollboat. So i agree trollboats can be funny, I just think your particular rig suggestion a bit odd.

Ha ha ha, you’re right. Well I mean the badger can tank better than the Sigil if both ships max out their low slits with cargo expanders or nanofibers, but no ship is tanking well if that’s all that’s in the lows.

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I can only really talk about the Impel (DST) and Prorator (Blockade Runner). I operate mainly in high-sec space so that biases my views.

Impel, and other DSTs, doesn’t get much benefit from cargohold expanders or rigs. You mainly use the fleet hangar which is typically twenty times larger than the cargohold. The slots are better used for a tank.
Use hardeners - you want good resists and you want to play to the hull bonuses. For pure buffer put a plate in as well and tri-mark rigs. If you are heading towards a possible ganking location turn the hardeners on and prepare to push overheat.

I tend to fit a repairer - my preference, I suspect it’s not optimal - I probably need to re-think that.

The best defence a DST has is the MWD/Cloak trick, though that doesn’t help as you leave warp. That’s down to situational awareness and being able to, for example, survive a dash to the gate under fire.

The Prorator - I fit cargohold rigs and carry a srt of low-slot modules as well. If I need to carry over 10,000m³ of cargo - a packaged cruiser and fittings - they I’ll use them otherwise it’s resistance modules. Not plate.
The rigs because you can’t swap them as you need.
A cloak and speed (hence not plate) is what protects the Blockade Runner. You should never be seen on grid or on d-scan.

I’ve not list a T2 transport yet. That’s probably more luck that skill. The underlying trick is, as always, don’t carry so much value that you become an economically desirable target.

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Yeah I’m surprised by the killmails that involve someone actually using them. Amusingly, some of them had them fitted while carrying less than 10,000 M3 of stuff, meaning they could have put the stuff in the fleet hanger, have spare room in the fleet hanger, move the cargo expanders from their lows to the cargo hold, and still make the Journey.

Exactly! Some DST pilots apparently don’t know that.

Try the advanced search button. There you can look for high sec pvp kills with deep space transport as the victim.

The hardest part was filtering out the suicide gank targets, as the filters themselves cannot distinguish between people ‘ganked’ by a large group of war targets or a group of suicide gankers.

The Sigil and Nereus can hit very high EHP/s with shield purger rigs. It’s about passive regeneration, not total EHP. Purger rigs are a large factor for the regeneration.

These ships can make great bait ships. Last time I saw one used was right after the Forsaken Fortress patch when my corporation was in high sec to clean up old stations and loot. At the time, @CCP_Aurora was baiting people to attack her battle Nereus. She even managed to get a Rattlesnake to turn criminal to attack her (which got CONCORDED :joy:).

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Sorry, what’s a DST?

Deep Space Transport.

Look up the Impel in the in-game simulation

(there are 4 kinds of DSTs, all of them very tanky and can hold a lot)

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Thx, I realized what it was right after I posted.

Sorry I should have been more specific. Yah I grew up cadari and I always used their haulers. God those things are paper!

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The answer is what you are hauling. If your cargo is like a billion worth, and you take a common route many times, eventually you going to fall under their radar. You have 2 ways of avoiding this.

  1. Lower your cargo worth, better do 2-3 trips safely than risk all you may have in 2 trip

  2. Master MWD +CLOAK TRICK. if you master it, you have 99,99% chance of not getting killed in HS.

you can check it here Eve Online - MWD Cloak trick - How to get past lowSec camps! - YouTube

While the MWD cloak trick is really useful, I think the added safety percentage is much lower.

First, a good tackle pilot at a gate camp will be able to decloak you in the long 10 seconds it takes to align.
Also you sometimes land right next to an object or ship on the other side of a gate, and other ships can leave their gate cloak within 2km of your ship, decloaking you. While you can sometimes hold gate cloak until the other ship is gone and while the chance these things happen is small, I don’t think it is 0.01% chance small.

Still, get a MWD and cloak for your DST, it will signigicantly increase your survivability.

And he won’t tackle you unless he flcan deny +4warp core strength( 2 built in and 2 WCS)

Second, it’s hi sec , DST have BS tank if fit properly, so it will need a hella amount of ISK to gank it ( that’s why I tell not to fly with too much value in cargo)

It’s pretty much foolproof unless you lag. You break cloak and then warp off in a second.