ECM Balance Pass - November

ships
pvp

(Salt Foambreaker) #161

If you just learn the skill every couple of cycles fails. This wasn’t broken, it was user error, specifically an undocking error, they undocked unprepared and died.


(Nevyn Auscent) #162

So the fleet on grid first cant be jammed at all as they have had their jammers pre jam them to build resistances… Sounds a great plan.


(Nikodiemus) #163

I figured someone would come up with that and was gonna add in ewar strength of that type returns to normal over time, I just didn’t. If someone wants to prejam their entire fleet or even the most important bits in the limited time before a jam heavy fleet lands and they are that organized and capable, let them try. That really sounds like something that works better in your head than in practice, but again, I neglected to say “it’s not permanent”.


(Nevyn Auscent) #164

WH infinite tracking bug required the same level of organisation to use.
So yeah…


(demotar) #165

new module needed , relatively low jam strength / low range ( say 50% of current ) does not allow lock back, only 1 permitted to be fitted at any time.

other ecm mods left with lockback


(Cypr3ss Deteis) #166

@CCP_Rise Just wondering what the timeframe on fixing ECM & the ships that use them is?

Anytime soon? This year perhaps?

Or will you be going the opposite route, and nerfing the crap out of the remaining combat recons and force recons so I no longer use them either?

Regards,
Cypr3ss.


(Salt Foambreaker) #167

I’ve got a suggestion in for “Spin Marks”; a skin item that shows how many times you have spun your ship…

That way I will have a use for my Widow.


(Master Sergeant MacRobert) #168

Comparing one EWAR module against one ECM module is fruitless.

EWar modules all have stacking penalties as you add more of them. You wont fit more than 3.
ECM modules have stacking bonus as you add more of them. You wont fit less than 3 (6 if you can).


(Chan'aar) #169

How about if ECM modules did a combination of sensor damping and tracking disruption? Remove the racial stuff, tech 1 does 75% of the damping and tracking disruption of the equivalent tech 1 modules.

This would have to be done with huge ship based role bonuses to stop these being worth using on none ECM ships.


(elitatwo) #170

Well weapon disruptors and sensor dampeners do not fail, nor does energy neutralization.

Imagine your neut would fail all cycles but one of 10.


(Master Sergeant MacRobert) #171

Exactly.

It should have been clear to CCP that ECM is broken as a mechanic. Reluctance to change, born out of lack of resources, does not make attempts at balancing valid.

The evidence is clear, look at the number of rebalance attempts. Look at the nerfed stats of the ECM ship line. Look at the lack of fun for both: those using ECM (when it horrendously fails) and those victims (when they are left sitting in the water powerless). Look at how many ECM modules need to be fitted (and activated on a single target) to get probabilities high enough to have confidence of success.

A new mechanic is the best option and should be high up on the CCP W.I.P.

Personally I still favour the mechanic that piggy backs onto the heat system. ECM attacks modules. Give them three scripts to target either high, medium & low. Each ECM module added then has a stacking penalty. They apply heat damage to the chosen rack of the target ship. Once the heat maxes out then modules take damage until they’re offline.

Then make it possible (albeit slow) to repair a broken module (nanite paste). ECCM then becomes a heat reducing mechanic which can be used on ships even when not under ECM attack (to lengthen the time of overheat or reduced the heat value per cycle).

Something like this should be given significant consideration.


(Sunviking) #172

Yep, it’s yet another example of how Caldari as a race is just so disadvantaged against the other races in PvP. Torpedoes is another example, as is Speed.

My suggestion for boosting ECM is to ditch the 4 Rainbow types and combine them into 2 types of Jammer, one that jams Radar + Ladar ships, with the other jamming Magneto + Gravi ships.

Also, I don’t like the concept where the jammer is the only ship you can target once you have been jammed, as that literally guarantees the Jammer gets killed, even more than before that change.


(Salt Foambreaker) #173

The only problem ECM ever had was players wanted to be able to max out and not fit any defense for ECM.

The original ECM complaint was like wanting to be immune to Warp Disrupt without fitting a scram.

They should have told the newbie to fit right or deal with the outcome.


(Litsea Reticulata) #174

Maybe, though for consistency it would be nice if ECM was scripted, so weaker multi-spectrum when the module is unscripted, with race specific scripts, just like how remote sensor, tracking disruptors and missile disruptors function.


(Litsea Reticulata) #175

Do you mean fit a warp core stabiliser? Its telling how warp core stabilisers don’t protect from the anti-microwap and anti-microjump effects of scrams, even when a ship has more than enough warp core stabilisers to beat the incoming scram power.

Another ideal candidate for review.


(Cypr3ss Deteis) #176

Is it? Because the module is an anti-warp core stabilizer, not a microwarp stabilizer nor a microjump stabilizer… so not sure why you would expect it to have any affect on these modules?

If you have sufficient stabs to overcome the scram you can warp away? You do realise a scram has a higher warp disruption count than a point, right?

Not really, no.

ECM though is still fubar.

Regards,
Cypr3ss.


(Litsea Reticulata) #177

That IS the point. A ship that can warp away should be able to as easily MWD or MJD away too.


(Cypr3ss Deteis) #178

And why do you think that? Because again, they are different things, even though they all (cept MJD) have the word ‘warp’ in the name.

Regards,
Cypr3ss.


(Litsea Reticulata) #179

Due to the fact the counter-modules to warp disruptors and warp scramblers are called warp core stabilisers. Why should the stabilisers counteract only some of the warp-impacting effects and not others? Maybe there should be a t2 warp core “descrambler”, though if one existed people wouldn’t bother with a regular stabiliser because a descrambler would just be overall better.


(Cypr3ss Deteis) #180

Ok, but the modules you want them to affect are the Micro-Warp Drive, and the Micro-Jump Drive. Two ‘drives’ rather than the ‘core’ engine type thing in ya spaceship (I am not up to speed on how it all hooks together, cause u know, spaceships!) :wink:

They stabilise the Core Warp engine (i.e. primary ‘move me thru space at faster than light speeds’ engine/drive) not any additional drives (modules) you have added to your ship… because “space ships traversing solar systems”.

Huh? You can either Warp or you cannot. A micro-jump is not a warp, nor is activating an MWD… I think the Afterburner is the ‘descrambler’ you’re looking for (allows use of prop-mod while scrammed?).

On-topic Edit: ECM still not fixed.

Regards,
Cypr3ss.