ECM Balance Pass - November 2018 - Finished when?

Hello @CCP_Aurora and @CCP_Rise,

I’ve been waiting, for a while now, for the ECM Balance Pass to be completed, in the original thread back in Oct 2018 the plan was

“to begin building back towards reasonable power balance for ECM ships and modules under the new mechanic, and we will make the first step in that direction this November”

From the post here: ECM Balance Pass - November

And I’m wondering when the rest of the plan (there is still a plan, right?) will be actioned on?

Regards,
Cypr3ss.

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LOL :psyccp:

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This is it, ecm is balanced and by balanced I mean you can actually go and solo without 1 ecm ship completely ruining your day with no counter play.

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Never.

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By balanced, you mean useless ecm in any solo situations?

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Yes. No more IWIN buttons.

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Are you refering to the grifin navy by any chance xD? Didn’t they change that ship already.
It now has 35m3 of jam drone’s with a jam bonus which work’s well for solo.

But they are not useless at all for solo, it is now situational. if you want to solo vs a group that brings in logi then ecm can easily break that logi and ships like the rook are actually pretty good for that ecm / combat balance.

Personally I would have liked a slight 20% damage reduction from the ship being jammed to the ship doing the jamming so ecm could be like a taunt but that is probably a lot of work.

But yes as Jhousetlin said the problem with old ecm is it took 0 skill and it completely countered something with out any type of counter play.

The current solution that lets you shoot the jamming ship brings flying skill requirements to the ecm ship which is perfect. The guy pressing the jam button needs to put more work in by either kiting, getting under guns or just out tanking which is much better than just pressing the jam button for it to be engaging game play.

So he is jamming, fighting or tanking? Since I’m kinda confused… And no, I’m not talking about specific hull or group engagement. I’m talking about 1v1 where in current iteration ECM is useless. Now they made warp core stabs useless. I kind of see pattern in CCP “balancing” efforts. But I guess it’s what you get when one side is crying loudest.

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Ecm 1v1 was basically no win situation for whoever was on the receiving end of the ecm attack.

I get that. My point is that now we have only nerfed ecm. Not balanced or useful ecm.

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Except it didn’t and there was.

Complaints like this are why it got nerfed in the first place, when people that don’t know what they’re doing cry loud enough… well this is what we get, half finished updates.

Ah well, maybe CCP will make Eve great again, one day.

Regards,
Cypr3ss.

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Signal amplifier and sensor booster gave ample protection to jamming, but players were too stubborn or lazy to fit them, you have even less reason to fit them now. Disappointing and disheartening.

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IF ONLY they would let a jammed ship “fire forward” in some kind of dummy mode. That way it’s possible to at least have a vote in this situation.
But no, we needed more spaghetti mechanics.

it’s not lazyness, it’s just that there is immense pressure on the mid-slots to fit scrams to counter mwd/mjd.
Webs to counter afterburners.
All the shield stuff if you’re shield tanking
etc etc.

There’s so much pressure for midslots that taking a sensor booster seems like shooting yourself in the foot on the off chance they pivot their tactics hard into ECM, which rarely happens, but when it DOES happen is super-frustrating.

If sensor boosters gave more advantages when ECM isn’t on the field i think people would take them more often.

The problem with that is you can only counter ecm before undocking (strategic counter) but if you go on a 30 jump roam how are you supposed to know that you will run into ecm.

Its fine that models can counter but you need a way to counter without the need to refit (tactical counter).

Tracking disruptor set to optimal range - (tactical counter) would be to fly in closer
Tracking disruptor set to tracking disrupt - (tactical counter) would be to fly with perfect transversal to your target

Sensor damps - (tactical counter) get within 14km’s which is not so hard as its pretty hard for someone to damp you more than that.

Neut -(tactical counter) pull range into the fall off so that even if it hits you it isn’t draining that much
Scram -(tactical counter) stay out of 10km’s
web overheated -(tactical counter) stay out of 14km’s or have a slightly longer or stronger web

Old ECM -(tactical counter) wait 3 minutes until it misses a cycle or fly 100kms away from the jamming ship. Old ecm is not practical at all if OLD ECM had a 20km max range (including falloff) then sure that would be fine as well.

If you can’t understand that pvp is more than just doing 1 thing then I think you need more information before making a contribution to game design suggestions.

Sounds to me like you only look at the way you yourself play and dont look at the big picture, it was not fine as it was it needed a change as it is now it could use some tweaks yes but not to go back to what it was that is for darn sure.

So just to be clear…

but just prior to this all your ‘tactical counters’ involve doing one thing, which is reducing or gaining range, but somehow this same ‘tactical counter’ when faced with ‘old ECM’ isn’t practical… if you’re able to close within 14km to overcome damps surely there’s nothing stopping you from pulling 80-90km and disengaging too… right?

I also find it slightly amusing you think it should be possible to fit a ship for all situations you could possibly encounter on a 30 jump roam… it’s just so logical, I look forward to more of your ‘big picture’ ideas in the future :smiley:

I’d also remind you that this thread was started in an attempt to get some sort of resolution to the unfinished ‘update to ECM’, I’ve resigned myself to the fact the ‘new ecm’ is here to stay, it was a ‘solution’ to the instanced pvp they’ve since introduced, nothing to do with ‘tactical counters’.

Regards,
Cypr3ss.

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That’s the problem thou you don’t want to disengage you want to shoot a group of players while maintaining range from the ecm and other dangerous ships, you can’t hold point and fight from 80-90kms they will just warp off.

If they give us 90km points and gun’s sure then 80km ecm is fine.

The whole point of pvp is to take the fight, game design that promotes running away is not good game design imo. E-war should make the fight harder not impossible.

A great way to change e-war in general is to have it have an aoe around the target ship with a much weaker effect and stacking penalities this way having one e-war ship in your fleet will help a ton but won’t screw over smaller groups.

Imagine:
Tracking disruption: (Limited to 1 per ship to allow for more fitting options)
20km Optimal, 10km Fall off, This forces the ecm ship to have to approach the enemy every 2 minutes then kite away aftwards providing a window of danger.

-10% tracking speed, -10% optimal and falloff (before ship bonus’s) with a script to double either one, this effect forms a negitive debuff cloud on activation around the targeted ship in a 50km radius.

ECM: (Limited to 1 per ship to allow for more fitting options)
20km Optimal, 10km Fall off, This forces the ecm ship to have to approach the enemy every 2 minutes then kite away aftwards providing a window of danger.

2 minute cooldown, apon activation creates a 50km debuff cloud around the targeted ship, all ships inside the cloud loose their targets and can only retarget the ecm ship for the duration of {target ship’s sensor strength - ecm strength} per second. All ship’s that are currently ECM’ed have their damage reduced by 30% against the ship that jammed them. Ship’s that have been ECM’ed in the last 1min 59 seconds gain immunity to it to stop stacking exploits.

So in general it will be 100% ecm chance with a short duration depending on sensor strength maybe a 8 second jam every 2 minutes for an entire group enough to stop reps and allow a ship to get deleted. This would put quite a bit of pressure on the ECM pilot thou with 100% chance it becomes super strategic on when to use it.

ECM is finished…

That’s what the ‘balance pass’ did to ECM. It made it unusable in any real way.

Paper thin ECM ships jamming, then becoming the primary.

It accomplished the exact opposite of the spirit of ECM gameplay.

The only way to save face and not look like complete fools is for CCP to give ECM ships ridiculous tanking buffs or just remove ECM altogether from the game.

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