Election Inflection of Alix Moreau

Communications Center General Discussion
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I was encouraged by a GM to post my thoughts here on this matter and have taken their suggestion. As many of you know there is an election in the Gallente Federation. One of the candidates known as Alix Moreau has enflamed passions on the Eve discord server in regards to grammar.

On the third of march an article was posted by CCP stating:

Two more candidates have joined the Gallente Presidential race in recent weeks. Bourynes Governor Alix Moreau has declared her intention to run while giving the keynote speech at a robotics symposium held in the Lirsautton I - CreoDron Factory. Moreau’s bid is being backed by the newly formed Autonomist party, a federal offshoot of the Intaki Autonomists whose flagship issue is the greater empowerment of local authorities. Though Moreau’s more radical views are not shared by all Autonomists, they have thrown their support behind her in hopes of riding her surging popularity to success.

So as you note I highlighted the use of “feminine pronouns” in all of that. Based off of the official CCP published content these were the pronouns I used when discussing the fictional character Alix Moreau. Members of the role play community became upset with me when some time later more content was published about Alix Moreau this time using “they/them” pronouns. Said role play individuals insisted I must use these pronouns exclusively. I wasn’t going to get brow beaten into excluding one pronoun over the other because certain people insisted that I do. Afterall CCP’s own official source used both. I don’t really care how people refer to themselves. But by all accounts per the published material CCP put out both forms were fine.

Well these individual spam reported me to moderation until a mod came and gave me a warning for hate speech. I thought..what? Hate speech? Aside from the silliness that after all this is a fictional character…me simply using the pronouns CCP themselves published is hate speech would imply that CCP itself published hate speech. The author who wrote it would likewise be guilty.

CCP publishes material with “her.”
I use the term “her.”
Mod warns me for “hate speech.”

A = B
B = C
A = C

When I brought this obvious point up the mod said it was dumb and the real issue was that I “dug my heels and made it an issue” and that I was “rule lawyering so I can sneak hateful ■■■■ into it.” The “issue” for me, I explained was that I wasn’t saying anything CCP wasn’t saying and people acting like I was a bad person for doing it weren’t going to brow beat me into talking how they insisted. Especially when the official published content was as it was. I don’t really care what pronouns fictional or otherwise characters use. It’s not something I focus on, nor even anything that I refer to altogether in any case. You do you.

Anyway mod through a series of mental gymnastic inferences insisted there was some nefarious reason behind it all which I needed to go to therapy for. The issue wasn’t that I “accidentally picked the wrong thing, but because you dug your heels into it.” But I didn’t pick anything wrong. I picked what was published by CCP. Mod went on to say that “this reveals your intent.”

So to be clear CCP used her…I used her…but my intent was secretly hateful. Explaining this prompted a response that still has me scratching my head, and I quote “If you didn’t have an issue, you wouldn’t have had an issue. Which is why we’re here…People who dont have issues dont get into arguments about things they dont have issues with.”

So the people that initially got mad at me for…using pronouns published by CCP weren’t the ones starting the issue. It was me stating that “hey CCP published this.” But as moderation stated “I couldn’t give less of a…about what was published.”

So what is the message? Despite CCP’s own content of using two different pronoun types, you MUST not use one of those and if you do it’s hate speech. A plain absurdity. And any attempt to explain this is dismissed as “rule lawyering” and “well you have secret bad intentions so it doesn’t matter.” If the only pronouns ever used had been they/them we could say my use of something else did not reflect CCP’s material. But that was not the case.

Does any of this make sense?

I’d like to thank the GM who corresponded with me advising me to open my thoughts out on the forums. Truly wasn’t something I was considering but it makes sense that this discussion be open to the community.

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You were flat out refusing to use gender neutral pronouns at the time. When corrected, you continued to be obstinate. You then eased up after having received your warning and started hiding behind technicalities. I cannot find the message, but I am pretty sure I read that you said that “non-binary isn’t a thing” in your initial ranting.

There is a difference between asking for clarification of someone’s pronouns and refusing to acknowledge them.

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No that’s just a flat bold lie. I’ve never said anything about non binary being a thing there. Ask ISD to scrape for any deleted messages if you want.

What I refused to do is get brow beaten in speaking how you wanted me to despite using pronouns published by CCP. I didn’t use any pronouns that CCP themselves didn’t use for their character. You and others just got upset because I wouldn’t play the same word game. I’m not going to be cry bullied into anything.

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oh no. You made the fatal mistake of saying anything about moderation or communication from a gm. Wont be long now until the forum hecklers start using that flag to get you removed for having wrong think and the gall to put it into words.

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Mods cannot see deleted messages from the user that wrote them.

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Admins can. You are plain lying about me making that statement. The question is why.

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when people lack information, on the internet, they make up their own.

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In discord, they cannot. It is only possible if there is a chat bot with that function.

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It was my understanding that they can. Either way what you are saying is simply not true. I’m quite aware of the prevailing view among moderation on the discord and how eager they are to report for making such a statement. It isn’t something I would do even from a purely strategic point of view. So best case scenario you have me confused with someone, or you are simply lying because of how absurd this entire thing is.

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Seems to me like in lore the character is referred to both as she/her and they/them? It’s not uncommon for genderfluid people to use multiple sets of pronouns so you should be able to use both?

I’m confused as to if I’m missing something?

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This is why I like Isaac Asimov….who’s stories are set in the same time frame as EVE, yet who are not still thrashing out early 21st century culture.

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From reading all of this, it honestly just looks like you were on the end of someone throwing about a bad mood and simply having the authority to do whatever they want. GM’s tell players to bring it to forums, isd’s dont want any of it on forums, and apparently discord.

There is a massive diconnect, leaving too much grey area for people to build their own personal kingdom of dictatorship that doesn’t fit any logic or within the rules. It’s just sad that nobody at ccp cares enough to reign anything in. Like they’ve given up on eve for their blockchain game.

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Well years ago a different ISD gave me a warning for posting a Fat Albert gif…the children’s cartoons. I spoke with CCP Convict at the time who said it was ridiculous and he would look into it. Never got back to me about it. Wrote a ticket to appeal it. And they act like you’re the bad person for even trying to discuss things like this. Basically if a mod throws some arbitrary warnings at you, you’re seen as a “problem person” and treat you like that instead of looking at the situation in a dispassionate and rational way. This case was very much “my pet taboo was brushed up against so I will use my position to put my thumb in your eye” as well.

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I have been lurking around these forums for the last few years and have been watching it happen constantly. They love to use their own moods and ideas and ignore any context. Then, you’re not allowed to discuss it anywhere, with anyone. CCP just keeps saying bring it all to the forums. the forum isd’s do whatever they want. players abuse the report functions as part of their efforts of online dominance and control.

When you report isk spammers in game, you’re warned that if you’re abusing that function and its not an isk spammer, you can face the firing squad. well, not those words exactly, but the jist is the same. Yet, on these forums, the flag and report funtions are a normal part of chat pvp for people that dont even play eve anymore. So many cases of this happening.

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That’s what you get when clueless virtue-signalling people only half-assedly engage in gender neutral speech. Their lackluster implementation only makes everything worse.

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Forcing the use of gender neutral pronouns is specific to English language and some parts of English speaking countries. Many other languages and cultures are completely different. For example, in my native language, not using gender specific pronouns to address someone is a form of disrespect or a very rude insult, depending on which pronoun you used.

To make things more complex, my language has formal and casual variations of some pronouns, something that English language does not have. Both formal and casual variations can either show respect, disrespect or be an insult depending on the context. Without studying both the language and the culture, you can’t understand the rules.

So, technically, anyone who forces gender neutral language on people who are not native English speakers is racist - because they don’t consider or value their native language and culture.

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Exactly same in my native language. Referring to someone in a neutral tone is basically acting like they aren’t human. Now I’ve spoken English long enough that both languages come to me fairly naturally. And this wasn’t even an issue of me using a pronoun that wasn’t established for the character. It’s me just using CCP’s own terminology. I don’t care if people want to do whatever gender affirming thing for themselves. But staff should also understand that this thing exists mainly in a subset of West-Euro/parts of North America. Most of the world does not operate under such belief systems. There should tolerance for a diversity of views in any case.

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Yes… like they are an object.

In addition to that, if you use “they” to address a single person, it can be an insult meaning that the person “hears multiple voices in the head“. That insult is decades if not centuries older than this whole gender neutral discussion.

Another interpretation, based on the context, is that the person is “hive minded“ (lacks personal integrity).

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The use of ‘they’ type pronoun is centuries old. If I bump into a car at a traffic light, I might tell the police ‘ I bumped into their car’ or ‘ I exchanged insurance details with them ‘. So its not some new fangled linguistic contrivance. It’s simply a more frequent usage of language that we’ve all been using for centuries without anyone getting worked up over it.

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For centuries no one used it as a statement on gender identity though. Gender identity distinct as a social construct wasn’t even really a concept up until a few decades ago when it was theorized as such by certain sociologists. But anyway I digress. The main concern here is eve players getting punished for using language present in CCP’s own published material.

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