For that to be a crime, Mr. Nauplius, there should be a law, prohibiting people of being Minmatar.
I find such sort of law to be logically improbable for any sentient law creating entity (it’s not like I, for example, can suddenly become a Minmatar for any reason, right?) Nor I know any of the territories where such a law has been accepted.
D. Kim, Strike Commander,
State Protectorate, CMC,
Caldari State
Dear Sir Vaari are you suggesting to retract the fires from the very sattelite wars that made them stars?
You mean the latest Quafe limited flavour edition?
Tsk. Starsi, ladies and gentlemen. Served cold.
I think this is one of the few absolutions that the receiver would be offended by.
I’m in regular communication with EM, but can only say that they seem to consider “anti-imperial activities” on hold, while the group focuses on anti-piracy operations in Minmatar space and the Great Wildlands. That focus could change, at some point in the future.
Looked for a “dislike” button for Nauplius’ comment.
How many years ago did the Caldari and Federation clash over Caldari cultural identity?
How many years ago did the Caldari secede from the Federation and establish their own state?
But these conflicts are in the past. You can’t bring responsibility to people who are long dead, right?
Hypocrite.
200
And I didn’t try, I was always claiming that we should fight Gallente not for what they did 200 years ago, but for they did now.
Considering though I have told it numerous times before and amount of time this particular tribal was poisoning the IGS, I don’t think I can convince Rella in any facts, even if I push her not-very-bright head with my boot right into what I said and her lies about my claims. But I really hope that nobody of other readers will repeat such dumb things about me as she did.
Ladies and gentlemen, I strongly recommend you to take my words and opinions only when their source was myself, and not some deluded tribal, who calls me hypocrite after trying to represent her own sick fantasies as my own.
Thanks in advance,
D. Kim, Strike Commander,
State Protectorate, CMC,
Caldari State
I can only reply to this by asking a question in response: When did it end?
As you’ve said in the past, the only ones being taken as slaves now are criminals. I’m not actually arguing that completely, nor do I feel that I should have a say in judiciary functions of foreign nations. Personally don’t agree with it but I will not comment further on that. As you are well aware, many seventh generation slaves were emancipated a while back, nothing below that. A third of our people or 10.712 Trillion people to give you an actual number are still enslaved. Do you honestly believe that none of close to 11 trillion people are having children? Children being born into slavery, their “crime” they’re sentenced to? Being born, breathing, sins of ancestors they never met. Is their very breath of life such a crime?
I’m not trying to point out some hypocrisy. Maybe it seems that way, I don’t know. I seriously simply wonder how someone could see this as the fight of our forefathers and not still very prevalent today. Especially someone who, like yourself has devoted themselves to the greater cause that is their homeland and people.
Your fight is not over, neither is ours.
I cannot estimate when the Republic was completely invaded and when slaving raids have ended, I believe it was about seven hundred years ago.
And please excuse me, I don’t know exact date when the Minmatars have won their rebellion and established their Republic. But I guess that were two “end” points.
I do not understand “punishing” of children for crimes of their fathers. But I can’t object it while it is done on the territory of the Amarr Empire and not Caldari State. It is their laws and their traditions, what I can consider wrong, they might consider right. They are not Caldari for me to judge them.
They do not enforce it on Caldari, they do no bring it to our doors. And if any Caldari will find themselves in such situation - it will be completely their fault - because Caldari really shall not disrespect laws and traditions of people whose territories we visit.
Oh, you really did not point a hypocrisy, Ms. Vess, and please excuse me if that did sound so - it definitely wasn’t my point. It was reference to the fools who attacked me out of their own ignorance. I am not going to point the finger, we all can see who they are.
I again apologize for my tone that was quite harsh, it wasn’t really you who should be target of this reply.
D. Kim, Strike Commander,
State Protectorate, CMC,
Caldari State
I see no reason to attack you on this. As you said, its not something your entirely familiar with. understandably so honestly.
I will say I hope when the Amarr show their true face to you and yours that you are ready. I hope my brothers and sisters and the gallante all see this as further aggression on the cluster as a whole, and snuff out the seering ray that is the “light” of his word. Shadows can’t exist without light to cast them. You and I are merely shadows to them because they wish it so, not because we are anything different. Don’t think they’re overlooking you while the spotlights pointed in our direction.
They don’t show the aggression to the cluster though, Ms. Vess. And it doesn’t look like they just “look at you angrily for what you are”, Ms. Vess. Yes, they might look at us like heathens, but we as well tend to look at people like jaijii, just foreigners, who don’t understand anything, and only most liberal of us have opens arms and trade offers to everyone. Yet neither us, nor Empire attack other nations because they are different and have different customs and traditions than we do.
But minmatars do. They have attacked the Empire just because they had slavery - and they usually put that as excuse to still kill people.
The war, Ms. Vess, started nine years ago not because of Empire agression, nor because they had you in their spotlight. It started becasue Minmatar fleet attacked the CONCORD, that tried to keep everyone at peace, and because Minmatar fleet invaded into the Empire, starting to kill and kidnap people.
It’s not the minmatar people who are in Amarr’s spotlight. It’s the amarr people who are in Minmatar’s spotlight. Mr. Nauplius aside, I don’t see a lot of Amarr who fight Minmatars just because they are minmatars, or just because Minmatars employ any policies inside their region. On the other hand, almost every Minmatar is ready to kill Amarr just because of policies they employ on their own territory.
Logically, it is pretty clear that it is the minmatars who are the aggressors.
D.Kim, Strike Commander,
State Protectorate, CMC,
Caldari State
to be clear, I fight their religion, not their people.
I won’t say your wrong in what you just said. What I will say Is things look very different from the outside than from within.
To be frank, I hope I’m wrong and your right on my gut feeling, I really do. Unfortunately, our first encounter we were seen as anything BUT worthy of existance. You have yet to fight the Amarr, theres alot more of the sentiment you see as a matari trait in the Amarr than you would think. the fascade they show you is not as important as the face they mask.
Ms. Vess,
For me fighting the religion seems like fighting the Empire itself - because they are almost the theocracy. Moreover, I can’t understand it, just like I can’t understand them punishing children for crimes of their fathers. The religion is just the idea, and people might lie about which idea they follow, you will have to become something like Federation Black Eagles if you want to fight the ideas.
I myself would never fight an idea. It’s hard for me to bring something bad about Imperial Faith, so as example I bring something that I really hate and often speak openly against - Democracy and Freedom. I do hate them indeed, but I never kill people because of that. If people build democracy and degrade their management system - it’s not my problem, it’s theirs. If they worship freedom, free their criminals, destroy laws, codes and morals - again, that’s not my problem, it’s theirs. And so is the Imperial religion - it’s just how they organize their lives. Will it be right or wrong, it doesn’t matter. But when you fight against their way of life, it’s always you who will be wrong.
I don’t fight the ideas. I do fight the people. I fight those, who bring hostile ideas to our doors. I kill those, who want to destroy our meritocracy to turn it into inefficient democracy. I kill those, who bring death and destruction in the name of freedom. I protect the State from people, who believe they have any sort of “right” to enforce any of foreign ideas on our nation. And this is why I stand on the Imperial side.
Despite their goals of reclamation, you won’t find a paladin, knocking to your door with scripture in one hand and sword in another, pointing at your throat. But on the other hand, if you would be an Imperial citizen, you could expect a Minmatar breaking into your home and stealing your slaves… Or just killing you because you are a “slaver”, even if you didn’t have any slave and never participated in enslaving criminals.
And even speaking about slavers - those, who actually enslave people for committing crimes, they didn’t deserve such a treatment, because they are just doing their jobs and ensure that people in the Empire follow Imperial laws.
I don’t see any reason why we would fight the Empire, or why Amarr would fight us. But I can start bringing a lot of arguments, why would Minmatars might start fighting us, but I will leave it for a different discussion.
For now, just to finish, I’ll say only this:
LEAVE AMARR ALONE. It’s their God and their lives, and you are not one of them to tell them how to live.
D. Kim, Strike Commander,
State Protectorate, CMC,
Caldari State
It is the religion that spurs on The ideas that hurt my people. It is the religion that tells them enslaving children is ok. It is the religion that, while it doesn’t happen anymore, was the reason they had paladins knocking on our doors. Much like how democracy is the bane of your existence, the toxic encroachment on your way of life that must be defended against. Do you really think I want all of PIE’s heads mounted on a wall? I want them out of my peoples lives. I want them and those with similar beliefs about MY people to stay on their side of the border and leave us alone. They on the other hand would probably be delighted to see my neck or any of my people at the end of a rope. For fighting with the same reasons you fight in mind. I don’t believe we have too many reasons to attack the caldari. I don’t speak for everyone however so thats just one persons opinion i guess.
And yes as you said, lets end this before it becomes an argument of some sort. Its actually been a rather pleasant discussion.
Sorry Kim but that ship sailed when the Amarr chose to “reclaim” my people, kidnap them and hold them in slavery by the TRILLIONS. Oh, and by the way, they’re still conducting illegal slave raids in Republic space to this very day.
When your Amarrian masters decide to leave us Matari alone, give up their “reclaiming” and release our kin then, and only then, will we leave them alone.
They are just like that. Illegal slave raids. No more agreed by Her Imperial Majesty than Freedom fighters terror strikes are by Tribal Council or Republic Parliament.
Nice that you missed the main point Vaari; so long as your people cling to your antiquated idea of “reclaiming” by force and hold trillions of Minmatar slaves there can be no lasting peace between the Republic and Empire.
Number of slaves has been in steady decrease for ages and we saw very sharp drop when our late Imperial Majesty ordered freeing of certain generation of slaves.
You will not see any extremely sharp drop in number of slaves because it would be devastating to the Empire’s economy. Renewing vast and rather bureaucratic empire is slow work. While im sure Her Imperial Majesty is almost as proggessive as me, even Her Imperial Majesty cannot order emnamicapitation of all slaves. Probably during her entire reign will see slavery just because it is too integrated into our culture to be removed very fast.
I see freedom wars contradicting the steady drop in slave numbers, because loyal amarrians can see it as a attack against our culture and feel the need to strengthen it.
My advice is to swallow the anger focus to to positive side which is the dropping number of slaves.
I do question the number of trillions of slaves even at the height of our slaving campaign. There are not even trillions of minmatars in universe.
((Number I quoted was from Source, which is what, two years old at this point? Could be lower honestly, it was just the most recent figure i could find))
If more Amarr were willing to work with us, putting aside some of the less friendly aspects of your religion teaches as your doing that would be more feasable.