How many times I need to refresh to patch notes page until I get the final version of what you actually added on sisi ?
Or just give both buffs to all of them, pacifier and t3 covert sub included. It’s the only weird part of this update really.
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The Black Ops changes are probably the FIRST good update I have seen from CCP in nearly years. This finally benefits small gang, even if it does benefit large fleet too. Hopefully, we’re on the way to something great again… soon™
-BP
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It doesn’t divide its damage over multiple targets, theoretically it would hit each target and bounce and keep doing its same amount of damage
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Nevermind the post keeps changing, made my question obsolete
Sin:
Removed 5% ship inertia bonus and increased base Ship Inertia Modifier by 25%
Did you accidentally do this the wrong way around? A simulated Sin aligns in 12 seconds now on the test server. It used to be able to warp within 8.
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Your math is wrong. What you’re looking for is:
1 [base point of damage done] x 6 [turrets] x (1.05 x 1.05 x 1.05 x 1.05 x 1.05 = 1.276281563) [skill modifier for hull] = 7.657689
vs.
1 [base point of damage done] x 5 [turrets] x (1.1 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.1 = 1.61051) [skill modifier for hull] = 8.05255
Which is about a 5% increase in damage.
That’d definitely be simpler, but I think they’re trying to preserve some racial flavor there. When they do, though, they wind up not realizing just how imbalanced that makes things at different scales. For example: in small-gang work, there’s a case to be made that the Scimitar and Oneiros, not needing cap buddies, are better, but once you get to even 20-30 people in the fleet, and 3-4 logi, the Basilisk/Guardian are just far superior in general.
The ability to offload cap regeneration to the cap chain is huge, and allows those ships to be a lot more forgiving of lower skills. A Guardian, for example, can be fitted to be effective as an MWD logistics platform with at least some large remote reps, and still function just fine with Logistics 4. An Oneiros w/Logistics 4 trying to go MWD w/1 large remote rep…
Well, just don’t do it. It won’t end well.
A lot of the design philosophies they attribute to the Gal/Min side are, well… hopelessly outdated and stuck in EVE-as-it-was-in-2005. And, to a lesser extent, small gang warfare. But from the perspective of the empire navies, they make no sense. Gallente and Minmatar ships get improved local reps? Sure, that’s great 1v1, and even works ok with 3-4 on a side, but the empires would be designing for fleet actions, and in fleet actions… lolololol.
I don’t care how good your subcapital local repping bonuses are, 30 enemy cruisers will rip right through them without giving a crap. That is a paradigm the Federation and Republic would have seen coming decades ago, and with the rise of capsuleer warfare in null, they’ve been able to see strategies and counter-strategies evolve at a pace that’s completely off the chain. Nullsec is basically a workshop for empire navies to watch how we figure out large-scale warfare in space, so they don’t have to spend blood and treasure figuring the same crap out.
And what we’ve figured out points to ‘these racial bonuses would get abandoned fast in favor of research into ship improvements that work’.
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A) high slot for the helios to use the nulli module… excellent!
B) Black Ops is the final subcap (well, along with the edencom line of ships) that my main can’t fully fly… interesting proposed changes. My first thought, like Arrendis, was to the Widow and the ECM bonus… I have a corpmate who was very saddened by the ECM changes a couple years back esp because of the Widow.
I know what you’re saying, but seems really odd for the Caldari ship to get a speed buff. Caldari ships are supposed to be slow! ;D
and it features quite prominently in the dev blog artwork!
Great stuff there. But yeah, as long as Gal/Min are the skirmish races… I think CCP’s gonna keep it this way. Nothing wrong with giving their ships bonuses that aren’t speed related now and then, tho, to distinguish them from the Cal/Amarr bonuses (I know, they DO already do that some… but mostly in active rep bonuses instead of shield/armor buffer bonuses like with the command ships).
Be aware that the devblog has changed since its initial posting.
So have a re-read just to be sure about things.
A step in the right direction. But few people are going to frontline their 25% higher damage 1bn ISK blops when an additional 2 stealth bombers adds more DPS to whatever you’re hitting.
Now give black ops BS t2 resists and the ability to use a covert cloak, and you’ll actually see them being frontlined. And no, that isn’t overpowered, especially vis-a-vis existing T3 cov ops options.
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Sin:
Added 10% bonus to logistics drone transfer amount
Could you please please turn this into a useful bonus?
45 extra health per second at max level is equal to a single unbonused medium remote repair module and not worth giving up the majority of the ship’s other drone bonuses and majority of the dps. Even on logistics cruisers with twice that bonus logi drones are rarely worth using.
The Sin has bonuses for drone dps, optimal range and tracking, so could we get something that complements those other bonuses rather than conflicts with them?
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9 years for covert ops to finally get theit first tiericide pass.
Yes, ive been waiting.
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As long as both races on one side of the cluster-wide balance-of-power are designed as ‘skirmish races’ and the entire other side of the conflict is designed as ‘fleet combat races’, then I have to wonder why the hell the Amarr and Caldari don’t just roll over their enemies, since those enemies cannot field forces that are even 75% as effective.
Seriously, this Quadrant, of all Quadrants, is not really the right time for CCP to be highlighting just how screwed two of their races are in the galactic balance-of-power. Hell, the whole idea of a ‘balance of power’ is that power is balanced. That both sides have rough parity and the same overall capabilities.
And frankly, that just ain’t true. It’s not even close. Look at the actual fleet combat going on in New Eden. Look at the meta, what it is, what it’s been. What gets used?
For main-line fleet combat, it’s:
Eagles.
Cerbs
Muninn.
Sacrileges
Harpies.
Jackdaws.
On the infrequent occasions that battleships go out, it’s:
Abaddons
Rokhs
Megathrons
Of those hulls, 3 don’t get their racial defensive bonuses. Those 3 are the 2 Gal/Min hulls (Mega/Muninn), and the Cerb, which gets the ‘Some Caldari flew a Minmatar ship and decided ‘I like FAST!’’ bonus. Everything else on the list gets the racial defensive bonuses. That’s part of why they’re used: they live longer.
The last two gallente-heavy meta windows other than Megathrons were Ishtars and Proteii. Neither of them has the defensive bonus, either. The last time there was a serious meta involving a ship w/a local rep bonus was 2012, and that was Maelstroms. And they didn’t use it. Maels were picked because they get 8 1400mm artillery, and that just deletes crap. These days, we use Tornados for the same reason, and Lo! There’s no defensive bonus! Hell, they don’t even get fitted with tank.
The ‘most advanced’ main-line ships of two major navies are completely unsuited for fleet use, by capsuleers or anyone else. And frankly, that’s just pathetic. Worse, once you see it in terms of what it would mean for the setting, you can’t help but wonder if CCP even understands how their ships are, and would be, used in any significant-scale conflict.
The entire idea that one whole side of the ‘balance of power’ is completely unfit to fight a war is just a horrible, horrible joke.
5 Likes
Inertia is a better stat when it’s lower. Right now the sin has a 25% increase in inertia modifier, taking the align time from 6.8s (with blops 5) on TQ to 11.3s on Sisi.
Also the Marshal still has the blops skill bonus to cloaked speed as well as the new role bonus. Sadly they don’t stack.
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Buff blops all you want. Your still not getting a single dime from me ever again as long as the test to prove your not an afk cloaky requires you to decloak and recloak.
I really like these changes! Take it a step further: remove bridges entirely from Blackops and Titans, and replace with group jumps. Make bridging mean that the bridging force must commit their bridging asset, namely, they have to put that Black Ops or Titan on the field!
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Your math is also wrong. What you’re looking for is:
inside skill levels bonuses are additive not multiplicative and under the line as they are rof not damage
dps mod before = 1 / ( 1 - 5 * 0.05 ) = 1 / .75 = 1.333333333
dps mod after = 1 / ( 1 - 5 * 0.1 ) = 1 / .5 = 2
Redemer still has 6 turrets so approx 50% increase in dps.
Not only that but the smaller ships lock faster. By the time the blops can lock anything the other ships have applied DPS for a few rounds making real damage even more skewed towards the smaller ships.
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CCP you are just so so wrong when it comes to edencom ships and trying to make the useful. If your intent was to buff them by making it 10 targets you actually nerfed the ship. That is how stupid you are. This is because of the randomized nature of the Vortron. eg in a 100v100 fleet the normal fleet only needs to contend with the ehp of 1 ships while the votron literally has to contend with the ehp of the entire fleet. So while the edencom shps very very slowly widdle away the normal fleet is killing them. Fixing edencom is simple IMO. 1. make it so that only ships locked are shot. eg 1 lock all dmg goes to 1 ship. 2,3 up to 3 for frit 5 for cruiser 10 for bs. 2. but the damage to where when it only has 1 target locked the damage output is less then the convential weapons by say 10%. 3. Have eden com dmg “ramp” but only to where it ramps per locked target. say 5%. so 1 locked target edencom ship does 10% less damage then normal gun eg ac’s or whatever. by 3 locked total output is same but now split. For a bs by the time it gets to 10 locked it would have 50% damage buff but split over 10 ships that are selected. Then balance damage from there eg more or less ramp more or less base damage. In short get rid of randomizing the damage, lower single target so that it’s not better then any other weapon when selsecting single target. Ramp the damage per locked target.
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While we are buffing covops ships, the Pacifier needs some love. I’d vote that it gets both racial bonuses (scan deviation and cloaked velocity) and gets an additional highslot. The Pacifier can’t even run a full rack of weapons with a cloak and probes. I’d love to see that fixed and the Pacifier brought into a reasonably competitive state for its price.
10 Likes