ESS Gate Mechanics Abuse

Alright since you seem to actually want to help and I want to understand then please. I did give an example in my first post of what he is doing. He has mentioned that once we find out how he is using it and what he is doing then it could be game over but that’s all he said. I don’t particullarly get the whole can’t warp to a ping that’s 10-15,000k off the ESS circle to the actual ESS. It’s hard to get interceptors cause we really don’t use them much since we are in a dead end system. He has told us that he gets paid for this and I am pretty sure the dude uses bots too cause who sits there for 20 hours a day and just watches their screen? Know I wouldn’t and yes I reported him for it as well. I just wanna see if I can beat this non-warpable grid that the ESS lays on. Any ideas?

Ok … sory for bit late answer but i need to check the last updates and be sure nothing changed since than …

First of all you are focus is ESS … what is ESS ?

So it is a dead space behind the gate IN THE BUBBLE !

i think that bubble what makes things interesting and complicated .

I have look at your z board . Seem like you are pretty much in null doing these ESS funz…And i dont know how much knowledge and experience with these mechanics :

1- Dead space .
2- Bubble mechanics.
3 -Login traps .

My intention is not intimidate you so please forgive me if i explain things you already know it .Because it is not possible for me to know only by looking your history.

1- dead space mechanics explained here:

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Deadspace

As you can see this mechanic has a broad use in FW space , in mission areas etc etc…
sometimes we warp to gate from different angles like 30 or 90 … if there are target to the distance you can activate the gate is limited… if we see the target is aligned to any celestial object we check his distance from the gate warp to that object and align to beacon and we warp back to the beacon from that point to to exact distance he is sitting … ( lol i just made scenario here … most cases the guy does not sit and sleep there or picking space apples… or we can simply sent one man first rest of fleed stand out of d scan range … scout tell us his positioning and bait give us info and FC warp to an object aligned then warp fleet to the exact distance with that alignment ,. With well timed clever coordination there are chances for tackle and kill…

2 - Bubble factor:
Now we are talking about ESS so there is a 1 - dead space and 2- there is a BUBLE “”” inside “”” the dead space …

So in normal dead space pockets you cannot warp around . When you take the gate . You are in dead space simply even there is someone like 5000 km away you can see it but takes forever to reach out something like that esp with ab ships … i had seen some afk looking people in these pockets so many times that i did not waste time on it … they might or they might not really be afk … but …. What you need to consider is you are also in a bubble in dead space pocket … that is not something we see in normal plexes. If we warp off in that type of deadspace mechanics when we warp back we cannot land on inside the pocket we land on to beacon everytime and have to take the gate again …

Now … when it comes to ESS that bubbel changes alot of thing…

If you logg of inside the ESS dung … you simply count as you are tackled… means your ship cannot warp off anywhere .same applys if the bubble is on the way … which weell bubble is on the way in this case.
He is using this mechanic simply so he can sit predetermined position as much as he wants… does not matter if he has a container in space or not… that container means simply nothing . No value for strategic navigation there…

Your group and him apply same rules same condition… what he can do you can do it too…

He cant you cant warp… he can log off and when he login back and be in same place again you can do that too…

If you know where he is standing when he is not around park someone there and log off or bunch of sniper low lvl alfa fits with a tackle to pin him down .

That is why possibly he says when you figure out it is over…

Because well if you read and understand what i am telling you here… IT IS OVER.

Also they explain up in the thread. These cyno decloac observatories… they do function as they should be . They are not there to remove cloaking capability of the pilots like “so song marienna”

If it is like that the way you wish… That that makes “cloaking “ totally useless in given systems , means even pilot is aware and present, watching his ship he cant cloak again . which CCP will never do that .

He’s not behind the ESS gate as the camper is flying a Nemesis. Frigates cannot enter the ESS.

So the Nemesis is burning long distances on the ESS entry gate grid.

Correct me if I am wrong, but on this entry gate grid you cannot warp to anything but the gate itself, so no warping to fleet members or bookmarks, no combat probing and no warping to objects. Also you cannot cloak.

These limitations apply to the camper as well.

A Nemesis is pretty slow, so if you can get an Interceptor (or if you don’t have that, get a T1 tackle frigate) with MWD, burn towards the Nemesis. As you are faster, eventually you catch up with him, which forces him to warp off to a safe and cloak up.

You cannot catch a cloaked ship at an unknown bookmark, unless he goes AFK.

So as long as the guy in the Nemesis is active, you probably cannot catch him.

But he’s there with a purpose: to drop when one of you is ratting in something expensive. Why else would he be there?

So again, bait him. If he’s active he will see your bait and might bite. And if he’s active you probably won’t catch him otherwise if he plays well.

If he plays bad and warps back to the ESS grid to burn away again, you could maybe catch him on warp in with combat recons (these don’t show on d-scan, he’ll know it’s a trap if you use any other ship). A Lachesis with 50km point at 50 from the gate in the direction he warped in can cover both a warp at 0 and warp at 100 from that direction, but if the Nemesis is using a MWD, which I expect he does, he’ll be able to burn out unless he warps into your (substantial) scram range. You might need multiple recons unless you can figure out at which range and from which direction he likes warping to the ESS.

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are you explaining to me or him ? @Gerard_Amatin

and also @Ana_Fey_Merkov
Not inside but outside the gate and that container :

Grid manipulation

Grid manipulation, often referred to as “grid-fu” by the community, is the manipulation of the size and shape of a grid. This is now mainly a historical technique after grid sizes were changed from 250km to 8000km in December 2015. Although the mechanics below still work, they are no longer practical due to the increased travel time needed to create new grids (32 times more distance needed). Some grids are larger than 8000 km - for example, locations like Jita 4-4 are around 70000 km.

Grid walls can be moved inwards, decreasing the size of the grid, or outwards, expanding the size of the grid. There are several ways of accomplishing this, but they all include moving or placing an object (any object) very close to the boundary of the original grid and thereby extending the grid outwards from the new object. The easiest way is to fly in a straight line from an object in space for less than 8000 km. There you have to either drop some sort of placeholder, like a jet can or any other object and then continue to fly in the same direction. Or have another ship continue on the same path onward using the former ship as a placeholder. After doing this the grid(using these 3 objects in space) can be a total of 32000 km in length (16000 km(the original diameter)+ 8000 km(the first object extending the grid)+ 8000 km(the second object)) however this is only extending the grid in one direction. The width of the grid is therefore only 8000 km still.

All objects in this 32000 km long grid will appear on the same overview at this point. There are then several different manipulations one can do like removing the placeholder in the middle or extending the grid in a new direction creating an L shaped grid or indeed any possible shape with patience and skill. Such manipulation can create space in between 2 pockets of the same grid where another grid is present.

This whole process is quite complex but not an exploit of game mechanics.

( reference from eve uni web page)

First part was response to you, rest was general explanation to him. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

yes just make a @ reference to his name for the second part so he can focus there

The plot is much simpler, he is just payed to cloaky camp you. He makes clever use of the always available ESS deadspace grid to mitigate the observatory dangers. Whether he actually wants to drop on you or just camp to spread fear (which he succeeds already) and extort, you can only find out with a bait.

In theory when he logs back in after DT, he should arrive at the ESS again, so you could catch him. However I’ve seen situations (with other site types) where players appeared back at their original position, but then the whole pocket would not “start” … and this would be an exploit.

Hence, log back after DT fast and bubble up at the ESS entrance with a bunch of smartbomb battleships for example.

@Tipa_Riot he thinks this is some kind of cheating … therefor he is ticketing.

The reason he react is lack of understanding surrounded by all these happenings .

I do try to share some knowledge that he can develop understanding .

This situation is very entwined with this groups handling and attitude towards the situation.

Yes the nemesis pilot playing with them / with him…

But biggest reason here is his allowance … this effects him, stress him … he used word fair… and we both know when /if things boils down the mechanics there is no fair concept . Not fair does not means it is cheating .

He needs to get a good grip of these whole bunch of mechanics and how they are mingling . That is the only way he correct his perspective .

It’s not difficult to understand, you only need to know a few points:

  • ESS outside and inside grid is deadspace
  • You can’t warp on deadspace grids
  • When you warp to a target in deadspace you always land in relation to the entrance beacon
  • Only cruiser size and above can enter the ESS

Based on that you should be able to create a plan against a single bomber pilot camping you. If not, it may be time to relocate …

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Decloak him with someone on grid to see general direction. Warp in a bunch of booshers, all align in general direction. Wait for next decloak. Chain boosh to position, blap.

Or, yeah just get a dramiel or even punisher in with a decent roll abyssal mwd. Should be able to get over 10km/s pretty easy.

Or, just run whatever and ignore him - if he’s paid to camp, more likely that not there’ll be no drop most of the time unless you’re in range of NPC/lowsec space.

Or, prepare a login trap. Roll out a bait rorq with max tank, set it up so everyone sits on login screen already in combat ships, run the rorq with minimal support, wait for the drop and cross your fingers you get to grid on time.

Just a few tricks to try. I do enjoy the chain boosh, though that’s more to knacker nanogangs hiding out on the ESS entry grid waiting for filament timers. No reason it can’t work in this case though.

sounds like the observatory did it’s job . not sure why you couldn’t do your part , and kill him .
it’s very likely he has a bookmark just off the deadspace grid . he can warp to it , and travel a few km and be on the ess gate grid , 15,000 km out as you’ve seen . next time he’s uncloaked , look at his direction of travel . see if there’s a celestial he may have used to start his warp . then make your own off-grid bookmark from the same celestial . you’ll be able to cross onto the ess grid and may be close enough to engage him .

Nah when we uncloaked him via observatory, he talked ■■■■ in local and recloaked within 5 seconds so yeah it did but it didn’t. Oh we know he has bookmarks. I am pretty sure there is one near each of our athanors about 100km off each one. We have gotten close twice and locked him up but he slingshots way too fast for us to even get him. Still learning his habits and still trying.

This entire thread is why local just needs to be removed.

People can’t stress you out with afk cloaking and bots become far less efficient. It’s a win win

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We all know how well that worked the last time CCP tried it:

Blackout is a stupid meme will always be a stupid meme and only stupid people think that it is a good idea. If you want blackout, live in W-space and make that space more dangerous because it is clearly lacking danger if you look at all the recent MER since this DBSESS garbage was introduced.

can you for one time, say one thing positive about CCP or EVE? I don’t think you’ve said one thing positive since January.

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Problem with black out was that it was always meant to be temporary so people were content to wait it out. Other issue was there was no way to add local back to a system

As is local being the game’s ultimate intel tool.

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There you go. I overfulfilled my Positive quota for CCP for this month already. I refuse to say something positive about meaningless rubbish like so many people on this forum and elsewhere do just to pat someone fragile characters. I say only something positive about CCP when I truly believe that it is a positive thing. I do so on a regular basis anyway.

Regardless whether people considered Blackout a fleeting experience and waited it out or not (which bots definitely did not as a surge of intel pod bots on gates clearly showed), Blackout was nothing that deserved any positive remark whatsoever. It was poorly implemented, poorly communicated, poorly designed and poorly handled. Plus, any form or benefiting null sec sov holders is doomed to create more issues than it solves. And while Local is the ultimate intel tool, it is available to everyone equally and cannot be tampered with. No one sees more or less than other people. No one can hide themselves or create false data. It is a neutral tool that everyone can use and no one can abuse. Every mechanic that tries to change that only results in undesirable issues that CCP will not ever be able to solve.

Even 2 years later, CCP still has not published an analysis of their findings from these 2 months, even though they said they would.

tl;dr Cloaking works and so do deadspace pockets; how dare someone be in the same system as I am, CCP nerf this.
Very cool thread.

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