doesnt make sense … tax reduction should be a bonus to the trader for massive trading ! not mirrored …
because it is … read your closed thread and you got so many answeres why it is !
Maximizing profits, tax avoidance is a sport, psychological factor of having to try to circumvent the tax because felt as unfair, whatever. Are you unfamiliar with taxes and how they affect people’s behavior ? A tax that comes out of the blue (as most do) is not an element of fun (except for taxes raised by corps/alliances of course, but at least they let it flow back into the organization).
The prices in hek, dodi, wherever are not just .5-1% higher than in Jita. If you want to buff other trade hubs you’d have to 1) produce in the vicinity; 2) stock everything and offer the same convenience to the buyer; 3) set reasonable prices, comparable to Jita.
Btw, have taxes ever resulted in lower prices ? Current market prices are the elephant in a room where people discuss setting up mom-and-pop shops. The current market prices are not a result of Jita being the major trade hub, they are the result of changes made to the game by ccp. And new taxes will not change one iota of the current prices - likely on the contrary, as they would push up the prices even further in Jita or any other place posing as a trade hub.
Isogen choke, inflation, a new threat on import/export and now a suggestion for more taxes ? If not a bad suggestion then at least a very untimely one. We have other fish to fry.
‘The sky is falling down’ type threads never are. They are invariably based around a single player’s perception ( or misperception ) and invariably have some rambling OP to obscure the fact that the ‘problem’ is an invented one.
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No. taxes are irrelevant to industry. A good industrialist put them in the price of the final product.
They are actually simpler now.
Then delegate it to one of the so many other hauling groups
rejected. This is against Eve fundamental principle.
When you want to do something, but you can’t because that would be economical suicide, then you are forced to not do it by those who placed those taxes.
When CCP made perimeter with a slightly lower tax, 99% of the plex traders moved to perimeter. They HAD TO. They were forced. Even though CCP may not have thought about it, the patch effectively forced plex traders out of Jita… even though mostly for BO.
Proposing to increase the prices in Jita is nerfing Jita.
It’s not bout believe. It’s exactly what this proposal is about. This proposal is the SAME thing as “remove Jita”. And if it’s generalized to all systems it’s the SAME thing as “remove the market”
People will use contracts, external app to manage market, will go in neighbour systems. Simply said this will make the game shittier.
WHY ? Why is it better ? How does it improve the game ? FFS ! This is stupid !
This was the case at first, when racial mats made the building of racial items cheapers in that empire.
Don’t know if it’s still the case but seems like JF made any regional bonus irrelevant.
WTF ? race meta modules ?
What is dropped in a region is alredy cheaper to sell in that region since there is no logistic to pay for.
How is that a problem ?
And they are right !
Because the depth of BO is too low.
And yes, people are using Jita BB … because the depth in Jita is better.
more depth = more stability.
The idea of an npc delivery service in New Eden is completely counter to the philosophy of the game. The live stream about Havoc re-stated it: even system security should not be a given.
So, in a setting where ship movements (hauling stuff) are deliberately exposed by the developers to destruction, risk free movement of goods will never be a thing.
they had to ? wtf ? did ccp say them " if you you dont do it then you got banned " ? thats no choice … but if we stay at your example then they done it because for plex sales even 0,01% can make a big change to your marge !
The thing is : you don’t have to.
Your whole proposal is based on a misrepresentation of the game.
I can ask people to move my stuff for less than 5% of the cost of said stuff.
Even better yet, it’s off topic and it does not even have to be discussed.
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At least, we can agree you are not able to make an on-topic constructive argument.
That’s an argument from ignorance.
You can be wrong while I don’t provide an explanation.
If anything, I think on the opposite that the ease of logistic is what allows Jita to be the main market.
I think making Amarr and Jita so far away was a good move since it would help Amarr market, then they added gates which made that change completely irrelevant.
you only want to reopened your closed thread … and if you would understand why ppl say its a stupid idea then you would have STFU about this theme !
Jita’'s network effect is strong you should work with that and not against it, ergo an Item Mailing System. Aka Jita on Demand.
Sadly the epic thread about the topic has been censored because the forum regulars just arent ready for such a good idea. And if you think people can not be ready for a good idea you can look up how Darwins idea was first received 
your proposal is off topic and bad, and you should feel bad.
To summaraize
- More ships, items and materials are added to the game every year
- Few are removed
- There seems to be a general decline in active players
- Logistics is a big time sink
- Industry is getting more complex
These are just some contributing factors to the market acting the way it does.
No bigger than any other activity.
It’s not.
No ?
What is raw items ? If it’s items that can’t be produced by manufacturing, then no.
So you say that every fraction of percent will drive peoples to move out of Jita because of maximizing their profit. And at the same time you are saying that 0.5-1% is meaningless and won’t achieve anything?
I don’t get it.
You need to keep in mind that taxes themselves will not mean higher profit. I can already sell few specific items considerably more expensive at Dodixie and I know it will sell, however:
- I need to fly there, because as rest of the EVE Universe I live and stage from Jita. And the time I spend to fly there and back is not really worth it.
- I need to wait much longer for it to sell. I don’t mind waiting, however I have very few orders lately and I want to sell lots of different stuff. Is it really worth it then?
- I don’t have perfect standing with Gallente, Minmatar and Amarr hence I am losing ISKs on taxes over Jita. = I need to sell considerably overpriced to turn profit
This all needs to be taken into consideration. I can say that I won’t suddenly trade in Hek because of a 1% taxes cut. But just maybe it will motivate others to do it and it will be easier and hopefully cheaper to buy stuff in other tradehubs. Even if not cheaper, if there might be more stocks that will be improvement. And if nothing happens, fine by me, let those who are supplying those hubs have higher profit then! (No I a not one of them, again I am not suggesting things that helps me personally.)
Assuming that the tax reduction will drive new traders to supply other tradehubs, then the competition between them and those who are supplying those hubs right now will drive the prices down guaranteed. Trade is done by hundreds of smaller solo players, so unlike wardecs there is no chance of a cartel forming up. Or you think that these new traders motivated by 1% lower tax will come there to sell it higher than current sell order?
That’s not what the quote is saying.
He says that won’t buff the other market, not that it won’t do a thing. People will move to Perimeter, to Maurasi, to New Caldari …
taxes mean lower profit, with everything else remaining the same.
You won’t be forced to ; some will. Depends on the market you are in. Markets with low margin but high volume are more sensitive to tax changes ; same for markets based on speculation.
No, I’m saying that 0.5-1% is an underestimate of what the tax would be. You mention 0.5-1% as a reasonable “solution”.
No, I did not mention “fractions of percent”. I don’t think “fractions” would do anything but increase prices by that “fraction”. The traders’ profits will stay the same, they make very sure of that.
Indeed, they only lead to price increase, because traders, those people who do not add anything but buy up and sell for a higher price, will make quite certain that anyone but them will pay for the extra taxes. As they always do, both in the game and in the real world.
Preferable, and more reliable than excuses of why prices in other trade hubs are what they are, are the three components I listed as essential to build up a trade hub: 1) local production; 2) full catalogue; 3) comparable prices. You just elegantly demonstrated why prices would remain high.
No. They are not the ones paying the extra tax, as they will compensate it in their asking price. They don’t care who pays the tax as long as they themselves don’t have to see their profits reduced. The convenience works both ways: traders have no reason to ship to other trade hubs that may or may not catch on. They don’t even do it today without an extra or a lower tax. At most they’d love to get their hands on that tax, because every red figure in their wallet is something they think they should get, forgetting they already marked up their prices to their customers to compensate for it.
Btw, you now mention a tax cut. Who thinks that a dynamic tax system would reduce taxes overall ?!
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Speak for yourself. It is fun. And profitable. What else do you want?
Not really. These enormous quantities are there as long as they are more expensive than minerals you can get from them.
Not even 90%. About 80% of trade is in Jita. It is a lot indeed, but not as much as you state.
Depends on the thing you sell. Some things have higher buy order prices in Hek… speaking of which, I bet it is time to up the buy prices once more - competition on these things is quite high here.
I don’t buy meta projectile guns, but I do know what I do with the ones I get from missions: cheap ones get melted, expensive get shipped to jita where buy order is often 50% higher.
Is what I have been doing since I started playing. And Hek trade has nearly doubled since then. Seems to be working.
Sounds like Belgium.
With a reasonable sell price things sell quickly. That is my experience.
Exactly. We have to put the work in to get the outcome we desire.
J-space by itself does nothing. Also from all minerals jspace can only supply isogen, zydrine and megacyte in decent quantities. Trit is from hisec, nocxium is from melting loot and low sec. Morphite is null - as usual. Many ore anoms in jspace have giant rocks of gneiss. Some have humongous rocks of it - average frontier deposit has 2M m3 of gneiss in a single rock. You want to improve supply of isogen? Consider getting it from C1 holes.
Plenty people run missions in Ani constellation. Problem is that humans are creatures of habit. And one habit that was great for long time is “blitz”. But quite a few missions nowadays pay loads of isk in loot - if you bother doing clears and dropping mtus to scoop da loot. My last angel extravaganza had 50M isk in loot alone (with bonus room). I melted most of that loot.
No. Real life shows that lowering taxes doesn’t result in lower prices. It only fattens profits.
And pass the overhead to the clients. In my experience it is <2% overhead.
Shortages mean profit opportunities. When you see shortage it is an opportunity. You can take it, or you can ignore it. It is up to you. Some people moving to farming new things means that some things they farmed (and thus no longer farm) will get more expensive. Thus profits of those who do them now will increase. Simple as that.
Simple : make courier contracts and pay couriers. Problem solved. Just pay them enough to actually be worth flying. Then it is them that have to use their time for logistics. Meanwhile you can do whatever else you wanted to do instead.
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Wtf?
Ok so, I was just buying Large ‘Vehemence’ Shockwave Charge in Hek for 1.004.000 ISK.
So you want to tell me that if we lower the taxes in Hek, which will drive new traders to come here and stock market, that they bring these bombs and start to sell them for more than that ?
No he’s telling you that if the taxes increase then the final price increases. Let’s say that you go from 4.2% tax to 10% and you margin was 40% (so ( SO×(1-4.2/100) - productioncost ) /SO =0.4 )
Then if prices increase, you increase the SO until it reaches the same margin.
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