Lowsec has no monopoly on isogen. You can get plenty of it from jspace - if you bother doing so.
we all can see that you dont stop “blabbering” but why you need to say this obvious suff ?
These discussions should really be more focused.
cant be because ppl think other will force anyone to anything and other ppl think nobody needs a tax rework cause its actualy works fine!
some ppl cant understand what a discussion is and just troll and ignore other ppl …
some ppl cant understand real points…
we all dont come to an agree !
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CCP should remove these created lowsec systems up again to make the ‘safe’ route to and from shorter again. The triglavian systems and now the systems with corruption won’t make it better. CCP should remove that kind of things from highsec. COmming from a wormholer in case someone takes me for a carebear, I only go to highsec to resupply.
The bias is real, I can admit that. When I want to sell larger quantities of something - Jita it is. But that only holds for larger quantities. How do you get rid of Jita bias? By seeding markets. This means that you have to take shortterm hit in profits. In due time you start pulling people to the market. But the caveat here is that it takes time to do so. Provide things priced at Jita level and you slowly start combating this bias.
'dixie is quite close to Jita. It’s both a boon and a curse. On another hand, Hek is developing well. but we are putting hard to make it so. If you want to get rid of major (giant?) bias towards Jita then you have to work hard developing your local market. Make sure that all sub-bs hulls are supplied at a reasonable price. Same for modules and rigs, T1 and T2. Don’t forget ammo! Then buy orders for things also have to be reasonably high. In due time you realize you need a couple thousand of market orders, giant industry and loads of work. Good news is that once your market is sufficiently big then other people start doing their part as well. But decreasing Jita bias isn’t a trivial thing to do and it takes loads of work over many years.
Want to get rid of Jita bias? Do your part! Even if it’s something as small as supplying ammo on the market, just do it. Even BPCs (you do have ship bpcs at Jita price level in Amarr, right?)
Wait, what? What items are spread between station and a citadel? Anyone sane sells at a station. Citadels are mostly ignored (outside of industry).
current meta is to use meta stuff on some things, as long as you need lower quantities of it. Yet it is also true that for many modules meta is not only cheaper but also better one way or another.
LOL. It’s quite simple actually. Industry is not particularly difficult or complex. Profits are easy to make, even on T1 stuff.
We have courier contracts. In my case it is extra 2% of overhead. This is cheap enough, easily can make more with L4 missions in the time saved by contracting logistics out.
To be fair it can benefit other hubs as well, but you are right - it makes logistics much simpler. Even if you don’t land in jita you can likely save loads of time just by landing in highsec and contracting out logistics. Then you move back to whatever you were doing.
And yet some people make loads of isk by supplying these “not worth supplying markets”. Somethings doesn’t add up.
This is because people contract couriers to move things through Abhazon. Then they price logistics like that. In addition many are addicted to short connection to Jita and want to continue it that way. If they bothered working on revitalizing local market then things would have been different.
While Rens is definitely falling, Hek is on the rise. Don’t say that they fell into irrelevance - they are still multi trillion ISK markets, with Metropolis crossing 12T. It is far cry from Jita, and a quarter of Amarr but saying it is irrelevant is incorrect. It is only 4T lower than Sinq Laison.
To be fair a nugde between 0.1 - 1% would be enough in many cases.
I have fitted my Loki a bunch of times in Hek. Fit includes storylne cap battery. If this can be fitted in Hek then it is hard to find something that can’t. Sure, sometimes the price is gouged (I call it OPPORTUNITY, to cut in and make profits myself), at other times there is shortterm supply issue (but these happen in Jita as well, medium em shield reinforcer ii is a great example right now - being price gouged through the roof in Jita right now)
He seems to believe that taxes are theft.
Indeed. There are large profits to be made in smaller markets but people only ever see “Jita” for the instant payout it can provide. Sure, for expensive faction modules it may be the best place to go. But for many things there is no need to always go to Jita… unless you really need that fast isk injection.
Why do you go ballistic over this? We, Industrialists had to deal with this for a long time now. It is called system cost index. For example right now I bet on many people considering moving industry out of Hek due to 8%+ SIC. This is 10% (don’t forget the extra 1.75% on top of 8.25%) of isk going into taxes. Yet you don’t see industrialists crying over it - we adapt.
What created lowsec systems? Adapt or Die. Don’t like long routes? Do industry at home. supply home market. Start dethroning Jita as a go to market. Don’t be lazy.
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Stop pretending you represent industrialists.
I don’t remember electing you.
I know how cost index works, thanks. And it’s the opposite, with the recent changes CCP has reduced the difference of cost indexes. Now the lowest research labo in HS is 1.87 (and I started a bunch of jobs so it should rise soon ish) . So 3.62 effective. Before it was like 0.2 or something.
But 6j from Jita you have 2.93 research index . So 4.68 effective. Moving from this to the best place only gets a 22% reduction in research jobs. With the increase in tax, CCP is making the cost index irrelevant.
With that and the missing updates of adjusted for EIGHT YEARS the cost index becomes useless in many cases.
Just because CCP added something alike for industry jobs, does not mean it makes any sense to apply it to market. The goal of industry is to produce, and wherever you produce is of no concern. The goal of a market is to make demand and supply meet, and if you force them to spread you are going against the goal of a market : you are making the market objectively worse.
This idea that CCP should do it for market is blatantly stupid. People made market to exchange goods. If the market is forbidden because of the higher taxes, it also means the production of goods is hindered.
This is a complete shitshow. People who are jealous of the volume in Jita want CCP to give them more volume by forcing people out of Jita. “If I can’ get it then nobody should get it” . Entitled petty lazy idiots.
+1 , and globally +1 for everything about doing it yourself rather than asking CCP to force a change.
They can be. Salt tax leading to ×10 the price of salt was not only theft, but also murder by starvation. Taxing half your expected grain production even in the bad years was indeed theft, and led to peasants revolts after many died.
Unjust taxes are theft.
Nope. The lowest is just shy of 2% effective. Technically moving from 4% to 2% halves the taxes. I am not sure if it is worth the hassle to do. On another hand moving from 10% (effective) to 2%? Worth it. The problem is: how much of these 8% is me alone? (about half of it) Logistics involved with moving is a bit more complex than just moving things. Research indexes don’t matter as much unless you are running very expensive research jobs.
Added? It was here for a very long time. They just been adjusted for a first time in a very long time. CCP introduced potent isk faucets and turned to industry for isk sink.
I am talking about research index (so avg ME and TE research index)
The highest labo is 15.2% so effective ±17 . The lowest is 1.87 .
Well, we industrialists do tend to have very expensive research jobs. ^^
Before it was here, it was not. Replace added by included or whatever, that’s not the topic.
And doing that they nerfed the effect of cost index. CCP are doing the opposite of what the OP wants.
It does, its called supply and demand, if demand goes up the price goes up, if demand goes down the price goes down, however in that same vein the supply of an item will shift depending on how much profit can be made, so if supply is low the price also increases as people take advantage of others being lazy and there not being many people making them
You’re confusing “wants” with “needs”
Nobody wants to do it but people do need to do it and there can be a huge profit in it, it is however extremely boring so i doubt that many people actually enjoy the task but do it anyway because its something they are skilled at
yes they can be if they are icreadebly high … but tell me a tax which is increadebly high if you want to trade ? oO there is none … so in fact there is no forcing ! and it wouldnt be if the tax are getting reduced in other tradehubs … !
By “regulate”, he meant to favor him.
Plenty. You wrote “Hek is developing well”, so you should know about this then? I don’t remember what it was now, but some of the modules I needed for my fit were only at IChooseYou citadel and some only at tradehub station. Also plenty of offers on other stations in system - make up your mind Hek residents!
Well the argument was “Rens is not a tradehub at all”. Well it has some supplies, not much but I could actually buy the whole fit there and if you live/stage around Molden Heat or Abud, then it is closer. It feels more like that some peoples don’t want it to be a tradehub rather than anything.
Jita has enormous quantities of meta stuff. On other tradehubs, metas are lacking and indeed I had to resort into using tech1 stuff. Tech1 is way too expensive after the glorious industry rework. No longer makes sense to craft your own fit which is really sad. And yes meta is always better than tech1, but there are cases where you don’t really need it and where tech1 would be sufficient, if for a better price. But that is no longer true.
Are they? Idk maybe it is possible. But 99% of EVE is trading in Jita for a reason. These 20+ fleets of jump freighters are going to Jita for a reason. These hundreds of 1bil freighters are slowboat autopillotting all the way from Amarr to Jita for a reason.
I suppose you can make profit, Sure. I am willing to buy stuff there slightly overpriced, and just as well on some items I am making a good profit selling it in Dodixie. But selling random stuff in Hek/Rens for anything but much less than Jita buy (when someone buys it just to resell it at Jita) is night impossible. I still have 5 orders lying at Hek waiting to be sold and I put them there last month at a current sell order-1step. Most likely already undercut and as a not a Hek resident I don’t have time to watch the order and keep it lowest.
Simply put, even if you actually can get a few percent more at other tradehubs it takes way too long to sell it, requires constant attention and lots of orders. Or you can dump it at Jita, especially if you are not a trader and selling for buy orders, selling elsewhere than Jita is just nonsense.
I am small trader, I don’t have 5 different fully maxed trading alts (with a 9.9 standing with respective faction) for me to be worth doing this. And I would argue that even for such players who has so many trading alts, it would be just better to use them for buy orders in that region to then move and resell in Jita instead. Although even that goes very badly and is a great showcase on whats wrong with the markets. When you get 1 piece of a meta projetile gun per day in Hek (order not undercutted) and 50 at Jita something is wrong don’t you think?
And most of them will just JF or autopilot the manufactured stuff to Jita.
Let me clarify: the Jita bias has existed from before I started playing EvE (2011). My suggestion in the discussion is that the bias has grown stronger since the triglavian invasion and the loss of Niarja for several reasons mentioned throughout my posts, of course at the detriment of the other trade hubs.
If traders in those minor trade hubs would set reasonable prices for their goods, they would see more volume shifting, and less people make the relatively short hops (amarr excluded) to Jita to get a fair price.
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with having one major center of commerce - there will always be a numerical superior one even by 1 ISK or 1 order- but @Syzygium there would be everything wrong with fragmenting commerce through a dynamic tax system akin to the system cost index or that ridiculous system we had for Industry Teams. You’d effectively prevent the existence of a major trade hub. The number 1 reason for its existence is convenience btw, a rare commodity in EvE. Players created that convenience, by their own choice, out of necessity.
Scattering people around forcefully, in a game where efficiency, organisation and enjoyment go hand in hand with grouping people and their activities into viable clusters, through taxes would be another big mistake. Dynamic taxes are anything but a choice, they are completely artificial walls erected in a sandbox. Taxes do not address necessity (goods still need to be produced and traded, whatever the cost, or the game comes to a halt), and of course a dynamic tax system has an optimal solution - to spread as thinly and as evenly as possible, which is counterproductive to how the game is played.
It may be that I am extremely allergic to taxes, living in a country where every “solution” involves at least one new tax system or new tax level without ever fixing the “problems” they were advertised to solve. But I really do not see any sort of an advantage for dynamic taxes trying to punish the existence of a trade hub a la Jita.
This. And set reasonable prices …
Perhaps Hex, Dodi, w/e need a tax reduction 
Then do it ! place BO above them and resell at Jita ! You will make a benefit AND help the market.
If you want to help a market, the best you can do is to be competitive in that market. If you are making losses in that market then you are doing something wrong. Want to make Rens great again ? Be active in Rens. Don’t try to mimick Jita. Import from Jita what you sell more expensive in Rens, sell to Jita what you buy less expensive in Rens.
Don’t be “stupid competitive”. Be smart competitive, don’t try to force other traders out, you will earn more money in the long term.
And yes it requires logistic. Which is what you make your clients pay for. If someone accepts to pay 1M more for an item in Renst rather than Jita, and it costs you 500k to move it, then you are making a 45 ish % margin on the hauling.
Also those meta 1 module, they can be bought at a price below the material cost once reprocessed … Jut saying … Even In Jita it’s several B each day that you can get at a nice discount below BO price.
but why is this a problem ? if player decide not to supply other markes like jita ? its a player decicion !
CCP has nothing to do with … the marked could have grown in rens instead of jita if player would decide its the better place to trade …
Ah, J-space. That lovely environment where you can get all sorts of fullerites, ninja, jedi, chameleon huff the stuff or go in in full force ? Done all that, it’s fun.
It’s more challenging than lowsec, wouldn’t you agree ? So what does J-space do for a mass consumed medium tier mineral ?
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How are dynamic taxes forcing anyone to do anything? I still don’t get it. It was mentioned several times here, but I did not notice any explanation for it from those claiming it.
Nobody wants to nerf Jita. What we want is to buff other tradehubs slightly. 0.5-1% or something like that. Maybe also lower relist tax idk.
Do you really believe that peoples will immediately leave Jita by hundreds and Jita will ceased to be?
The way I see it, the ideal world would be where:
- small market hubs had lower taxes than Jita - a regional stimulation for selling in that region instead of Jita.
- And for a race tech to be cheaper to manufacture there than in caldari space.
- Ideally also stimulate race meta modules from loot to be sold in that region.
Unfortunately I see no way how to achieve 2 and 3. I mean, you can make it cheaper to craft in other regions, but players will just craft it there and move and sell in Jita anyway for even bigger profit. It is too easy to do. And if someone actually puts it on a market in that region for cheaper than Jita, then someone else will buy it all and move it to Jita to resell himself.
Likewise with 3, the buy orders are often higher than Jita, yet nobody is selling. Either nobody is doing the missions and anoms outside caldari (which seems to be the case actually can tell from ganker’s perspective) or the players are using Jita buyback program or they sell to their corporation who then JF it to Jita and dumps it there.
Stop spamming this total nonsense. Peoples already explained you that you are wrong on so many levels and you just reposted this crap again.
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How is it crap? 