EVE Online Ecosystem Outlook

[Circumstantial_Evidence]

I think I just have to Like that, even if I didn’t agree with every single statement Someone who takes the trouble to read over 270 posts and make comments throughout - salute

[Ysonoko_Lelexandrian]

Vision

• All EVE Online players are deeply engaged in a universe full of non-repetitive activities with intuitive risk/reward ratios while not competing with cheaters

You mean like level 4 missions, ratting, incursions, exploration, industry… Oh and of course mining. Everything in the game is repetitive. That’s the nature of MMO’s, the grind. Erasing moon mining won’t take away the repetitiveness of belt and anom mining, or any other activity. I’m just looking for a little consistency here.

Edit: Thanks for the roadmap info-grams

[Nevyn_Auscent]

Incursions, Invasions, Emerging Conduits. “weather” type effects break up how repetitive an activity is. They make you adapt on a day to day basis, maybe pick a different mining ship today or even a different activity because it’s “raining”.
Dynamic PvE is clearly a target of CCPs. Other games have had similar.

[Litsea_Reticulata]

@Stevens

Even Olmecca the most staunch anti nullsec member of the CSM has said the null members of CSM are not devoted to improving nullsec but devoted to improving the game.

Except when it impacts whalers. Tethering changes were so unnecessary.

@Chan_aar

Fry squint. I mean you are correct but people not taking fights because they don’t out number people at least 3 to 1, fleets standing down because the out of game widget says we don’t have the dps and/or logi to win this fight guys happen.

That sounds like a pretty awesome tool.

@Chan_aar

Mineral shortages are not going to change that, they will if anything make it worse.

Look in your hanger. What if every ship had to be insured for you to keep it?

@Chan_aar

The large bloc’s will remain the large bloc’s because they still have their supers.

Sad but true.

@Imagia

Exactly my thought. Mining and ratting in null sec and low sec with be no more profitable than they are in high sec, so there is no bonus to doing it there

It used to be that high security, low and null all had different ores, so there was a point to mining in each location with a relative reward.

@Imagia

if you have multiple accounts, others can be used to fleet mine, rather than providing fleet jump support

Sounds like this means mining is still repetitive gameplay.

@Anderson_Geten

Try to move 5B worth of tritanium from null to HS.

Easy if its still in compressed ore form.

@Lucas_Kell

They like to play it as if it’s not beneficial but pretty much everything that has come out of the CSM has been beneficial to null groups in one way or another. Even when it’s not directly beneficial the economic benefits of knowing what to stockpile ahead of changes often more than make up for any negatives.

The station changes were a great example, some groups got wind the changes were happening weeks beforehand and a single region was burned to the ground on the promise faction citadels would be worth something. Same region got screwed in the blackout, while Delve painted blue umbrella’s over their podcast and laughed.

@Scoots_Choco

I did a Ctrl+F on the page and the word “Mineral” does not appear in the entire blog.

Lol.

@Lucas_Kell

That means that if you were in a max yield hulk mining with zero downtime and someone else doing your hauling you would make 30m per hour. That’s less than solo running level 4 missions in a standard fit BS.

If someone else is hauling, its 15 mill per hour for the two of you. One haven in null pays for your whole hour of work in half the time, I am told.

@Dunk_Dinkle

But you’ve made up your mind about what happens in rooms you’re not in, so it doesn’t matter.

Now now, there have been members on the CSM who were removed for doing the wrong thing…

@Lucas_Kell

No, if nullsec wasn’t a giant blue doughnut it wouldn’t be bad, but that’s what it is. The null members of the CSM ensure that changes don’t threaten their ability to hold power.

Yes. Are we surprised. No.

@Lucas_Kell

The one time they nearly did get pushed out, when a gambling site put trillions into a war effort, the rules of the game got changed to shut down those sites.

You can be corrupt for a long time, just as long as you don’t cut into other corrupt turf with more power.

@Lucas_Kell

Bear in mind I 100% agree with CCPs decisions there, sicne a third party website generationg that level of wealth was insane, but it existed for years without CCP batting an eyelid then was shut down the moment it threatened the existence of a major nullsec power.

Like so many things, shouldn’t have been able to happen in the first place.

@Durp_Hurpington

they also would have finally fixed global cool-down inaccuracies when I toggle modules. It’s still broken, and you’ll never convince me otherwise.

Try living outside of the EU/NA where lag means you’re playing the Eve online of yesterday.

@Lucas_Kell

You push for a few changes that negatively affect a handful of poors at the bottom of your alliances then point at them and say “look, we did bad stuff to null” while the same groups continue to hold power.

Lol. All the doors at the bottom. The best thing would be if everyone who was a miner, stopped mining, then they wouldn’t be poors anymore.

@Stevens

Since CSM began every null group has been diposed of their space at least once, several multiple times.

Wheres’ that map of before fozziesov vs after?

@Stevens

The later even has CCP shocked that it happened and CSM pointing out to them they literally said it would happen.

I am shocked that they were shocked.

@Stevens

Then you must not be reading the CSM minutes, because you can see the CSM push against changes, and then CCP releases them as they first suggested and the CSM often gets to tell you “I told you so.”

I’ve read the minutes every year and its exhausting to see this. It is quite hard to say that the CSM is a means for groups to self-protect, while at the same time decry it as a simple spectator who has to watch the movie CCP presents.

@Lucas_Kell

Null groups generally face no serious threat of eviction they just rotate space a bit and war to keep their membership from dying out. Are you new or something?

LOL. Like sharks, they have to keep moving or they die. If you aren’t giving your members content, you won’t have them for long.

@Bobo_Auscent

I make my isk by exploration primarily, and a bit of pve.

If you said that in a corp interview and you don’t get told “thank you for your time, this is not the corporation for you” then the position they have open is for F1 monkey.

@Bobo_Auscent

Glad you are removing cheaters…no one likes them and I hate cheaters.

Cheating should include cherry picking of sites. Why CCP hasn’t made the cans immune to scanners is baffling.

@Imagia

This is all carrot and stick tactics.

Except some of us pay to be beaten with the stick.

@Stevens

So the vast majority of feedback has lead to constant nerfs to nullsec, but some how that is all of nullsecs plan to make it stagnant and boring, and this is some grand conspiracy of the top level members of nullsec doing what?

Some things have been nerfed while others have not. Some of those nerfs took a long time.

@Stevens

Rorquals and citadels have both been shouted down by the CSM to still be released as initially presented by CCP. Again you must not be paying attention

Rorquals were OP because the was no control on how many could be active in system. Citadel bombs were OP, but as a fighter platform they are woeful when compared to a carriers 4000km lock range.

@Stevens

It needs to be broken up because you want them to play by your rules.

I forget which CCP dev said “Some groups figured out how to beat the rules, so we are changing them”.

@MB_ThePhotographer

On a better note, it does “seem” to me the Dev’s are posting more on the forums. I didn’t get an answer to my direct question, but that’s irrelevant. The simple fact that they are posting more gives me hope.

Its nice when they post here instead of reddit.

@Stevens

The entire point was that whatever you are doing, you could be making more money doing missions.

Missions don’t scale like mining does, and mining is the most scalable activity in the game.

@LePaJ

I hope the Burners and abyssals 4-5 lvls will leave the Empire, as well as sotios and keepstars.

XL structures have no business being in empire.

@Stevens

CCP couldn’t even run a fair test of how many people played during Blackout, and they were absolutely banking on that causing people to come back.

Running an event during blackout only proved that the bad numbers could have been a lot worse.

@Shipwreck_Jones

You mean it’s going to drastically reduce botting activity and weed out those who would rather complain than adapt? How is this not a win?

Blackout hurt one region more than any other. Is your assertion that everyone in that area were butters?

@Aernir_Ridley

Goons and have a titan within a year or two. However at the higher levels Goons and to a lesser extent the other large coalitions have exploited the current resource distribution mechanics to amass forces well beyond anything that was ever intended.

They played a good game, sadly they helped break it too.

@Nevyn_Auscent

But EVE was at its healthiest when Null needed to buy high sec minerals an mass to produce on any scale as it meant the areas of space fed each other.

True, my corp used to buy all the veld and scordite from Jita and ship it down to build stuff. With the moon goo changes, it was part of the design to make it less transportable, but also there was the byproduct of the minerals that used to get imported.

@Stevens

Are we moving back to mass importing or do they still want localized resources?

Very good question.

@Tobiant_Ormand

Sounds like an environment suitable for a blue doughnut…no reason to attack each other in null if they actually rely on one another for resources.

Because I need something for my corp to do and I don’t want to pay you for the stuff you have? How many times have you seen a kill mail of a procurer with 100 bombers on it? More ISK was spent on bridging than was killed…

@Lucas_Kell

This is not really a secret, alliance leaders for various alliances have made this pretty clear multiple times over in the past.

Even to the point of paying the enemy to put up a structure to fight over later…

[darkestkhan_Eriker]

@Arrendis

But to make that meaningful and encourage warfare rather than cartels (a la OTEC), CCP will need to fix the ‘Supercapitals are necessary to own space’ problem.

Are you referring here to real life OTEC or to OTEC of old moon mining in EvE ?

[CommanderFightR]

New quote record - You forgot to quote the other 200 posts in this thread

[Litsea_Reticulata]

@Circumstantial_Evidence

Someone who takes the trouble to read over 270 posts and make comments throughout - salute

I woke up late.

[Shipwreck_Jones]

@Litsea Reticulata

@Shipwreck_Jones

You mean it’s going to drastically reduce botting activity and weed out those who would rather complain than adapt? How is this not a win?

Blackout hurt one region more than any other. Is your assertion that everyone in that area were butters?

No. As you can see, I wrote something after the “and” .

[Litsea_Reticulata]

@Shipwreck_Jones

As you can see, I wrote something after the “and”

You exclude the possibility one can both complain and adapt.

[Shipwreck_Jones]

@Lucas Kell

@Stevens

Even Olmecca the most staunch anti nullsec member of the CSM has said the null members of CSM are not devoted to improving nullsec but devoted to improving the game.

All that tells me is that Olmecca is a liar.

I’ve heard people in real life say, “everyone has a price.” This is, of course, false. Some people cannot be bought, and will not sell out their friends, family, values, and/or morals for any amount of money (in fact, some people have even given their lives for these things). But, people keep, “saying everyone has a price,” anyway. And this made me realize something -the people who believe and propagate this saying are all people who can be bought. I mean, if they couldn’t be bought, they’d know the statement is false because they’d know that the rule doesn’t apply to at least one person -themselves. So, the simple fact of the matter is that the only people who say this are people who can be bought.

Anyway, I’m sure you can see where I’m going with this without me having to spell it out.

[Zhalyd_Lyehin]

@Shipwreck_Jones

But why be happy that they’re finally addressing it, when we can complain that they took so long?

Why should I be happy about them saying they will do “something” (they still have not specified anything in the second blog in a row) when the child threw itself out of the window in their bathtub years ago even though people have been telling CCP how crap the situation has been and even their MERs have been showing how crap the situation is? And now they say “waiting longer is bad”? Why should I be happy about such cynicism?

Instead of working on this garbage red dot, which again wasted precious dev time, they should have worked on this with the entire company. Moreover, what is there to be happy about? They have not said anything you can be happy about. This blog is meaningless, it recites the exact same talking points of the previous blog and the blog before that, it is not specific, it at best gives a blurry, vague outlook on a maybe to happen roadmap (and we all know how well CCP turns their roadmaps into action).

[elitatwo]

Where in the world do you get the idea that “veterans make too many isk”?

What you wanted to say is “everyone with 89348043554545842745835 accounts is making too many isk”.
The tiny detail you seem to “forget” is that only those with bajillion account will be making that kind of “too many isk”.

I do not.

Fact is that I do not suffer from dissociative identity disorder, nor am I braking the rules of physics and be at more than one location at any given time.
There is a hard limit of what I can do at any given time and I do very much not care if I have to rescue the damsel over and over again if it means the payout is the same, which it is.

If 5 year old babies complain that they get bored when they have to rescue the damsel more than twice then they may not give the best input on such matters.
Maybe they should reach the age of 14 and be legally allowed to play EVE in the first place.

Since when is a ship loss “meaningless”??

What you wanted to say is “a ship loss is meaningless for people suffering from dissociative identity disorder and 756734857835738573985783758357834579435635 accounts”.

Get that in your head.

If you want all thing be equal make it mandatory to allow ONE account be online at the same time from the same life form.
Then and only then can you hopefully make the statement of “healthy wealth accumulation”.

[Arrendis]

@darkestkhan_Eriker

Are you referring here to real life OTEC or to OTEC of old moon mining in EvE ?

Well, since one of those is OPEC…

[ClanLogan]

That concept just screws over anyone who might like to play solo.

[ClanLogan]

No you are not doing great - once you introduced the whole Plex concept you screwed up the wealth distribution. While I realize CCP needed more $ - taking it out on the newer players who have to buy to compete OR have good resources so they can afford to DIE repeatedly at the hands of gankers isn’t balancing the game it is disadvantaging the High Sec cadre.
Get it through your damn heads its NOT all warfare - otherwise why did you bother to put any Industry Mining or other things in.
I think y’all are as full of ■■■■ as a Christmas Turkey!
Another big crash in player base is coming ala circa 2013 I guess it was and the huge Alliances in null will still have the wealth and power.
This pisses me off because I pay for my Omega and earn my isk in the game mostly and you are making it harder as usual. Disgusted.

[darkestkhan_Eriker]

@Arrendis

Well, since one of those is OPEC …

Bummer, I hoped no one notices the mistake there xD

[Roime]

The visions in this dev blog sound excellent! Pretty much how my ideal EVE would be. Good job CCP, and good luck!

[Giddy_McFee]

Too long coming but it is at least nice to see what your thought process were/are.

I thuoght the Healthy state of income would be more in the middle of that bar rather than more towards to low income side. Can we assume that you generally want income to be lower over all activities?

Can you provide more thoughts or info on what you consider Outlier activities and how you looking to change them?

[Taritura]

As usually CCP doesn’t see the problem with:

1. All that b… in dev blog ends when your ships get’s blown by gankers. When it’s a mission ship, industrial, or your hard earned citadel. Everything that’s written in that blog doesn’t matter any one can destroy your many months of work within seconds with laughable risk, so … it’s ■■■■■■■■.
2. Manufacturing/market tax ??? why only industrialist pay the tax on enerything they do ???
3. Cloaky neuts in NS that’s a balanced s,. You can’t do anything beaucous somone is afk cloaking in your system… another ■■■■■■■■…
4. Reprocess vielt 70 % in hs ??? bull…
5. To move a capital your every jump is now a risk for 150 mill… bravo. Bul…

Start fixing this game by

1. Remove ganking in HS.
2. Remove wardec in HS.
3. Remove the stupid thing that you have to pay 200mill to activate a killmail … You have to pay to revenge on someone to take revenge on him <- the biggest bull…
   And then you can write about balancing the game.

[Zhalyd_Lyehin]

Not really. In null sec you can play solo even under resource scarcity, but you have to accept higher risk if you stray too far away. Alternatively, you can just use different tools to achieve the similar results. Instead of relying on your Rorqual, for instance, you can just mine moons with barges that are aligned to safety all the time. Higgs Rigs are a thing and they help a lot in that regard. And if your alliance/coalition calls for locust fleets, you just participate and contribute to the greater good.