EVE Online: Havoc - Expansion Notes

[Mastakazam]

Bubbles in Zarzakh?

This is EVE, full of EVE players.

Naturally, those gates in Zarzakh will thoroughly bubbled for the first week or two.

Anybody who makes it into warp in the system will land on the edge of a bubble in unstable space and will die to the environment regardless how strong their tank or how good their combat skills. Everybody who wants to join the pirate war through Zarzahk won’t really be able to because trolls said lol.

If there is a good way for solo and small gang players to deal with the bubbles they’ll quit before they figure it out because it’ll be SUCH a hassle (compared to just operating out of normal lowsec) and dying to the environment like that would be incredibly discouraging.

And you can forget about those nice industrial bonuses of the station ever being used.

Zarzakh will never recover,
once the reputation is set.
Super cool feature.
Fails on day zero.

[Nicen_Jehr]

Can mobile warp disruption bubbles be anchored in Zarzakh? That would be significantly worse than dictor bubbles

[Accis]

Will Pilots aligned with the Deathless and therefore on the Pirate-Side of the war be able to dock at low-sec station within the empire?
It is just mentioned that FW pilots aligned with the Empire will nto be allowed to dock and the fulcrum - not vice versa…

EDIT: also yes - bubbles in Zarzakh with its very limited manuverable space and ship-killing envivoment is a really REALLY bad idea

[BillMaster_Oddolara]

What is a Havoc expansion size ssd/hdd?

[Lodemai]

As part of Havoc, the Settings Menu has been granted more screen real estate. It is now full screen and will look and feel more modern.

For some reason I already know this will suck.
The current blur was bad enough, why completely hide what’s behind?

Also, you gave us one bigger font size, can you also give us one smaller? I want less UI, not more.

[Vortigern_Vitalis]

@Hans_Devin

So you can camp the gate with Battlecruisers and fast locking cruisers and blow up the gankers when they land. You can do the same thing in a belt. You can engage them before they aggress and blow up their little dessies. You can damp them, jam them Sam I am them. Get every other miner in a T1 Thorax or T1 Caracal. Have two Raven loiter and orbit at 225 km.

I would be surprised if any impact on mining. There is actually not a lot of ganking vs miners these days in HS. Hauling on the other hand… the point you are missing completely is that if people start trying to go after the gankers, they are not mining, they are not hauling. Which screws the economy that so many of the “PVP elite” think is incidental to the game, but really, really is not.

[Nicen_Jehr]

In-game typography now features two new sizes ‘Tiny’ and ‘Huge’

[Tahiro]

i dont think its possible to get average 1b/h net profit with the stormbringer, even after buffs and with current filament prices. t6 electrical filaments are already 60m and if the stormbringer will be that fast the filament prices will also adjust fast, because the supply of t6 filaments is quite limited.

seems quite fishy to use the vorton buffs as argument to ban high tier abyss from highsec. could just restrict the stormbringer from entering abyss instead, also the gila when already at it. you dont even know yet how accesible the vorton mutas and faction mods will be and i guess you also havent done the math, nor any logs to back up your claim.

[Syzygium]

@Tahiro

i dont think its possible to get average 1b/h net profit with the stormbringer, even after buffs and with current filament prices. t6 electrical filaments are already 60m and if the stormbringer will be that fast the filament prices will also adjust fast, because the supply of t6 filaments is quite limited.

You don’t need to run only electricals with the Stormbringer. It can also run kinetics and it can run Darks very well (yes you don’t have a resistance penalty to hit into in darks, but the NPCs clump up a lot more there because they come closer. T4 dark rushing goes exceptionally well.)

Well okay, a billion ISK/hr is probably too high, but what I know from a LOT of abyssal runs is that the Stormbringer can run any environment like 50% faster than other ships IF it can run them. The time saving is just huge in all those pockets where you have lots of NPCs that you can hit with the arc.

@Tahiro

seems quite fishy to use the vorton buffs as argument to ban high tier abyss from highsec.

Tbh I run T5/T6 myself, and lots of. They should have been excluded from HighSec right from the start. Their profits are simply too high for this environment and the risks are almost neglible. And yes, I am of this opinion even while making huge amounts of money with it. DED sites, Anomalies, Sigs and even Beltrats are balanced in quality/reward connected to the space they can appear. There never was a need to be able to run T5/6 in highsec. It was a bad decision right from the beginning to allow that.

@Tahiro

could just restrict the stormbringer from entering abyss instead, also the gila when already at it.

That would be arbitrary and against good game design rules.

@Tahiro

you dont even know yet how accesible the vorton mutas and faction mods will be and i guess you also havent done the math, nor any logs to back up your claim.

Their accessibility (aka their price) will be comepletely irrelevant, since it will go down to a reasonable number once the new content is established and then it is just part of the blingfit like an A-Type Invul is. And my “math” is based on years of HighTier Abyssal running and excessive testing on Sisi with all ships, including the Stormbringer.

[Tahiro]

@Syzygium

You don’t need to run only electricals with the Stormbringer. It can also run kinetics and it can run Darks very well (yes you don’t have a resistance penalty to hit into in darks, but the NPCs clump up a lot more there because they come closer. T4 dark rushing goes exceptionally well.)

first you pull 1b/h out of your ass and then you talk about t4, seriously…

@Syzygium

Tbh I run T5/T6 myself, and lots of. They should have been excluded from HighSec right from the start. Their profits are simply too high for this environment and the risks are almost neglible. And yes, I am of this opinion even while making huge amounts of money with it. DED sites, Anomalies, Sigs and even Beltrats are balanced in quality/reward connected to the space they can appear. There never was a need to be able to run T5/6 in highsec. It was a bad decision right from the beginning to allow that.

i see, thats your point. just another null/wh crab metagaming, the usual nerf x bcause i want more benefit.

@Syzygium

That would be arbitrary and against good game design rules

there is already plenty mechanics with restriction and most make the game far more balanced which is a good thing. however, there is plenty other options, like tweaking via abyss mechanics, or a dynamic loot algorithm which would slow down all abyss turbo crabs and regulate the income, not just stormcheater abuser.

@Syzygium

Their accessibility (aka their price) will be comepletely irrelevant, since it will go down to a reasonable number once the new content is established and then it is just part of the blingfit like an A-Type Invul is

wrong, it depends how accessible the will be. how many faction radiation sinks have you seen on killmails?

@Syzygium

And my “math” is based on years of HighTier Abyssal running and excessive testing on Sisi with all ships, including the Stormbringer.

thats not math, not even numbers just your feel. even a quick look at abyss trackers shows that pull your “math” out of your ass

[Syzygium]

@Tahiro

first you pull 1b/h out of your ass and then you talk about t4, seriously…

You need to think a bit to make that connection. It can be hard, but it is doable. Stormbringers can currently only run T4 reliably (aka using a fit that has 100% success rate if the user doesn’t ■■■■ up). The Stormbringer generates roughly +50% profit in all environments it can run, over all other ships. What currently simply only is T4 in the long run. However, the only thing that stops the Stormbringer from doing the same in T5 and T6 is that you simply lack the single-target damage to survive 3 overmind spawns in a row because you run into the 20minute timer. If that limitation falls, we can safely assume that the Stormbringer will boost T5 and T6 profits by the same 50% because it will be able to run 6 filaments per hour instead of 4 like the other ships can.

@Tahiro

i see, thats your point. just another null/wh crab metagaming, the usual nerf x bcause i want more benefit.

Can’t see your point. I am not makeing money in Nullsec and barely make money in WHs from running sites there. When doing PvE it’s HighTier Abyssalrunning and I am doing that on an alt in HighSec. Which is the reason I know it is completely overpowered in terms of profit.

@Tahiro

there is already plenty mechanics with restriction

Name three of them where just a specific ship cannot enter while other ships from the same branch can. Shouldn’t be a problem if there are “plenty”.

@Tahiro

like tweaking via abyss mechanics

I am open for changes that especially hurt Stormbringers or Gilas, like NPC spawns that intentionally starburst and keep more distances from each other.

@Tahiro

a dynamic loot algorithm which would slow down all abyss turbo crabs and regulate the income, not just stormcheater abuser.

You can’t tie it on the ship used, because that would be bad game design for a sandbox by giving one certain ship an arbitrary punishment in a specific content. You also cannot tie it to previous performance of the user, because that would actively punish those making good decisions when fitting and flying. Which would be an even worse game design.

@Tahiro

wrong, it depends how accessible the will be.

Just no. They will have a price and no matter how high that price is, a professional HighTier Abyssalrunner will use them.

@Tahiro

how many faction radiation sinks have you seen on killmails?

That doesn’t matter at all. First, the Ikitursa is known to be a pretty bad Abyssalrunner, even with Faction Radiation Sinks and since even those are abyssal-rolled with mutaplasmids, you simply can’t see it on Killmails if the ones used were rolled T2s or rolled Veles’ ones. I can guarantee if I would use an Ikitursa, I would use abyssal rolled Veles’ Radiation Sinks on it. I just don’t because the ship still can’t run T6 reliably.

@Tahiro

thats not math, not even numbers just your feel. even a quick look at abyss trackers shows that pull your “math” out of your ass

Please watch your language if you want to have a constructive discussion. I see I have hurt your feelings, probably because you are afraid that I might be right and I might hurt your source of ISK with my opinion, but that doesn’t mean you have to become more and more aggressive. It really doesn’t matter if its 600M or 700M you could then make with a Stormbringer in T6, it is way too much. The amount of profit you can make already in non-stormbringers is already too much for an HighSec activity.

[Phaade]

So avoid the system dude. You’re whining about something so easily avoided it’s comical.

[Vortigern_Vitalis]

I am not whining. I am pointing out a potential major problem for the game’s economy. How do you avoid a system that is on a chokepoint on a main hauling route? There are plenty of them, popular with gankers for very obvious reasons. I would politely suggest the stupidity of your comment suggests you have never hauled freight in HS. And please do not call people you do not know “dude”, a lazy, vulgar Americanism if ever there was…

I have no problem with HS ganking. I do have a problem with consequence-free HS ganking, which this ill-thought concept from CCP will deliver via the back door.

[Ashterothi]

A) The system reverts automatically
B) As a Trig supporter I resent being called a Null pilot
C) Corruption makes a HS system more like low than null.

[Tahiro]

@Syzygium

If that limitation falls, we can safely assume that the Stormbringer will boost T5 and T6 profits by the same 50% because it will be able to run 6 filaments per hour instead of 4 like the other ships can.

i think filament prices which the stormbringer runs well (exotics and electricals) will spike and that will bring it onpair with other meta ships. it was always like that, the fast and easy weather have expensive flaments and the harder weathers have cheaper filaments, but you can still make more isk in the slower and harder weathers generally speaking.

@Syzygium

Which is the reason I know it is completely overpowered in terms of profit

its no rocket science to pull 300m/h per toon from other highsec activities which are a lot safer, or in any other kind of space, which invalidates your argument.

@Syzygium

Name three of them where just a specific ship cannot enter while other ships from the same branch can

i never said from the same branch, mr strawman

@Syzygium

You can’t tie it on the ship used, because that would be bad game design for a sandbox by giving one certain ship an arbitrary punishment in a specific content. You also cannot tie it to previous performance of the user, because that would actively punish those making good decisions when fitting and flying. Which would be an even worse game design.

it seems you dont know how a dynamic loot algorithm works. its quite simple, after a certain amount of time the loot starts to diminsh and goes back to normal when taking breaks or doing other activities. this would only hurt 24/7 nerds and only crabs, if implemented properly.

@Syzygium

That doesn’t matter at all. First, the Ikitursa is known to be a pretty bad Abyssalrunner, even with Faction Radiation Sinks and since even those are abyssal-rolled with mutaplasmids, you simply can’t see it on Killmails if the ones used were rolled T2s or rolled Veles’ ones. I can guarantee if I would use an Ikitursa, I would use abyssal rolled Veles’ Radiation Sinks on it. I just don’t because the ship still can’t run T6 reliably

the smartbomb ikitursa can run t6 darks faster than any other ships and its reliable if you are not a scrub. do you actually know how expensive those faction radiation sinks are? most ppl dont roll 2b modules just to get them bricked, or to lose them to a gank/dc.

@Syzygium

Please watch your language if you want to have a constructive discussion. I see I have hurt your feelings, probably because you are afraid that I might be right and I might hurt your source of ISK with my opinion, but that doesn’t mean you have to become more and more aggressive. It really doesn’t matter if its 600M or 700M you could then make with a Stormbringer in T6, it is way too much. The amount of profit you can make already in non-stormbringers is already too much for an HighSec activity.

i like abyss, its by far the best pve content in terms of fun and challenge (if we exclude the cheese ships like gila, stormbringer and ishtar to some degree) and it would really piss me off if i cant do them anymore.

i am fine if payout gets adjusted for abyss, or even better for the other activities which are lacking rn, but taking them away from hs would kill the game for me, since i play casually nowadays and cant be bothered to join the blob just to run some abyss.

[Suki_Vokkonen]

• Players who are enlisted with the Angel Cartel or Guristas Pirates will enjoy an additional bonus that reduces the industry job SCC surcharge by 90%

@CCP_Bee In the last The Scope video, there is this news about the SCC cracking down on money laundring by criminals and pirates. Yet, the SCC seems to have no problem making business with the Deathless, the Angels Cartel and Guristas, and collect taxes on manufacturing jobs made in The Fulcrum. Meaning they are fully collaborating to monitor activities within The Fulcrum. I understand the lore does not always need to be fully explained, but shouldn’t it at least make sense? I guess it is easy to be cynical about Concord and say they are greedy, corrupted, hypocritical, etc, but why would the Deathless, who had that event a year or so ago to fight against DED Saro troops, now allow Concord’s SCC in their station and collect money that is later used to pay bounties for Guristas and Angels death ?

[Vortigern_Vitalis]

@Ashterothi

A) The system reverts automatically

How long to revert? If a chokepoint system is out for days, that is a non-trivial issue.

@Ashterothi

B) As a Trig supporter I resent being called a Null pilot

I was talking about the fall of Niarja. Are you suggesting that NS pilots did not play a significant part in that event? Maybe you are not Null, but it does not necessarily invalidate my point.

[Nicen_Jehr]

probably because the slight verisimilitude increase isn’t worth the engineering time to build and forever maintain new code to display a different name for the taxing entity. does SCC take fees in Thera?

How long to revert

Also curious here what minimum and maximum insurgency duration is

[Kage_Mikihiso]

I’ll just leave these 4 systems that are below 0.8 security here: Osmon, Apanake, Lanngisi, Hek. Have a nice day

[Syzygium]

@Tahiro

i think filament prices which the stormbringer runs well (exotics and electricals) will spike and that will bring it onpair with other meta ships. it was always like that, the fast and easy weather have expensive flaments and the harder weathers have cheaper filaments, but you can still make more isk in the slower and harder weathers generally speaking.

Since the price won’t spike more than the additional profits generated (you will make profit with every single filament run, else you don’t run), still more ISK will be made in the Abyss than before, which is imho a bad thing. And if Stormbringers will be responsible for most of that, they will be in a - imho - too strong balance position among all those ships who can run them. Right now their spot is about okaish, since they can really speedrun T4 and make really good profits in an incredibly cheap and basically riskless environment, as a drawback they can’t reliably run T5 and T6. Enabling them to run T5 and T6 can make them too OP in these high-tier Abyssals, generating too much money for a highsec activity.

@Tahiro

its no rocket science to pull 300m/h per toon from other highsec activities which are a lot safer

Name three that you can run solo and basically riskless. Should be no problem for you. I can already say you that L4 mission running doesn’t come close. Even with blitzing and buying all your tags cheaply via buy orders (which would be market-profits, not really running-profits anyway…) you can’t beat HighTier Abyssals. Burners can come close if you have specialized ships for really every single burner mission, know exactly how to speedrun every single one of them AND exchange your LPs only for the best items (which again are mostly market profits, not so much running profits). And even then, it is very hard to reach consistent profits of T5/T6 abyssal running. Besides that I have argued to nerf burner proftiablility for a long time, since - just like with Abyssals - I did this content myself and know it simply pays too well for highsec.

@Tahiro

i never said from the same branch, mr strawman

It is the direct result of what you said. Please name me three examples where a content is specifically restricted for one ship as you said it about the Stormbringer/Gila?

@Tahiro

it seems you dont know how a dynamic loot algorithm works. its quite simple, after a certain amount of time the loot starts to diminsh and goes back to normal when taking breaks or doing other activities. this would only hurt 24/7 nerds and only crabs, if implemented properly.

It’s even to much income/hour when done just 2 hours in a row. Your “dynamic loot algorithm” wouldnt solve the problem of Abyssal Running in HighSec simply paying too well already.

@Tahiro

the smartbomb ikitursa can run t6 darks faster than any other ships and its reliable if you are not a scrub. do you actually know how expensive those faction radiation sinks are? most ppl dont roll 2b modules just to get them bricked, or to lose them to a gank/dc.

Thats nonsense. These Smartbomb Ikitursa was run on Sisi as Testship and yes it can perform well, but it has several death-rooms. I have flown it myself for many dozen runs, it simply dies from time to time, making a blingfit and bllingclone not an option. On TQ it isn’t really used.

Also “Ganks” are simply a boogeyman argument. I have run hundreds, maybe more than a thousand abyssals and not lost a ship to a “gank” once. Not once. Ganks don’t really affect abyssal profits. And yes I know what they do cost, I could simply go to Jita and buy some. And would absolutely roll them, like people do roll Officer Items to have a chance for maximising the returns.