Eve Online's Absurd Kill/Loss System

Oh look…a 100bn ISK Fortizar got destroyed in Y-MPWL system. Yay !

Er, no, hold on. It can’t have, as there is zero record if it. Maybe one of the 400 or so attackers got a killmail. Nobody knows. I don’t even know for certain that it wasn’t me…as due to tidi there may have been no killmail at all.

This sort of situation is crazy. It is no less crazy that it relies on some third party application ( killboard ) to dig up the likely non-existent info. It is crazy that many of those involved were up specially at 4am to kill the Fortizar…and have nothing in the way of personal record to show that they were ever involved !

This is absurd for what prides itself as a PvP game.


I checked all the ads for EVE Online, and none of them offer “a PvP system with hand-crafted digital trophies you can fondle to treasure your victories, great, small and lame”. Apparently, EVE is about the challenge, the risk and “the stories players create”.

You may have to create your own participation trophy. Start a blog, post a forum summary, create an app. EVE’s not about sitting around lazily waiting for someone to hand you your rewards.


What frikin ‘story’…if there is no history of it ? It’s nothing to do with who was better than who, or who deserves a medal…it is the simple act of having some sort of record.

You cannot have a ‘story’ without a historical record. It would be like trying to tell the drama of WW2 without a single historical record.

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I will post it if I get 1 billion ISK.


Become a space historian then.

Document, archive, curate, present, publish, write.


Whole new buisness model! Nice one, nice one!

@topic: It’s hilarious that after 20 years of existence, this game hasn’t an integrated killboard. At least for non-PvE destruction (opt-out for kills where no other player was involved).

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But one of the primary sources of space battle info is zkillboard, which relies totally on the info actually existing. As with the infamous Sotiyo killmail in the Finanar war…here we have yet another that would seem to have just ‘disappeared’. Which is odd in that later the same day 602 people killed a Fortizar in a nearby system and that is recorded, yet 450 people isn’t.

Of course, some will say the defenders shot their own station and are hiding the killmail, but in fact there were hardly any defenders about when the station blew up. What’s more, it is crazy that those other than the ‘final shot’ or max damage people have zero idea if a killmail even exists.

As Syzygium says, it really is hilarious that a 20 year old PvP game still doesn’t have any integrated killboard.

CCP tell us to ‘create your own story’…and then deprive us of the very tools to know what that story was.

So…I’m slowly forgetting when the battle was, where the battle was, who fought who, who won, who was there, who were allies…etc, etc. All the elements of the ‘story’ CCP expect us to create.

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Killboard is just one kind of evidence.

It’s not anyone else’s problem if it’s the sole evidence you are after, and you just want to rail against the killmail system.

Your original post went beyond that. You went on pretending there was “zero evidence” of it existing. Many other people can confirm it existed. And many people have documented death and destruction of structures and ships in the form of videos, blogs, oral tradition on podcasts, news shows, etc. But your personal ego needs a killmail.

It’s one thing to be upset that the killmail wasn’t uploaded and are lamenting that the system is as old and unstable as it is. It’s another to become the caricature of extreme “killboard warrior-ing” by throwing a temper tantrum. There’s more to the game and a capsuleer’s story than a killmail – if you need convincing, I hear the princess has a nice blog.


That’s just pure nonsense. A station is just one kill record…I got over 100 others in associated combat that day and the day before. It’s not like I desperately ‘need’ more station kill or ship kills records…I have 300 station kills or so already…lol.

I don’t care that my 723 overall kills in my 3 most active accounts isn’t now 724. I’ll probably get another 30 kills today on yet another battle. I care because OTHERS were there and some of them were noobs with no kills at all and their one shot at something goes unrecorded. A station bash is a collective effort…and a missing killmail is thus a collective dumping on.

Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in my talks with GMs about the accuracy of running a third-party bounty hunting service, the impression I got from my discussion with them was the following (for obvious reasons, I cannot share the conversation verbatim):

  • The Killmail system is best-effort
  • A killmail being generated is best-effort
  • Killmails can and do sometimes not generate at all
    • (personal comment from Io: Big TiDi structure bashes are already known for this – they usually fail to generate)
  • Killmails can and do get generated incompletely
  • No, support staff will not try to re-generate killmails nor try to audit the integrity of one

So I guess you should set your rookies’ expectations accordingly, and perhaps not exclusively rely on “killmail hype” for getting them motivated.

Is there any chance this could happen with my monthly subscription and the system just ‘forgets’ to take it ? I mean…wouldn’t want to strain the servers and all that.

Certain ones they have. Or maybe im thinking of ccp titan killmails they had to regenerate.


If a Fortizar explodes but there is nobody there to hear it does it make a killmail? :thinking:

– Ancient Buddhist Wisdom


Yeah! I remember something along those lines. CCP employees will (re)generate killmails they personally find interesting and/or valuable. Any of us rabble asking for the same for arbitrary killmails is ignored.

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Which is an ironic statement given how often her blog actually references killboard and you know as well as I do that every ganker posts their killboard kills on the ganker channel. So apparently it is OK for some to ‘brag’ their kills but not others.

I think every participant in a kill should get a KM.
I guess it may create some more lags.

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I don’t think you know what irony is, but I’m going to skip that.

The point you missed, was that even without a killmail I’m fairly certain when writing a blog post they could produce a picture, video, link to a Twitch clip, some other thing to document someone losing a ship, etc. …and her blog’s narrative could continue uninterrupted.

Yes killmails help tell a story, no one is arguing against their usefulness, but lacking one doesn’t spawn a tantrum:

It’s as simple as recording with OBS or hitting your OS’s 3-key hotkey to take a screenshot of the event.

Edit: And if your rookie newbies say “I was there” and is hanging around with a crowd that goes “nuh uh, you’re lying, you don’t have the killmail” then they are hanging around a bad crowd.

This one they did. It was missing for a month or so…and CCP did eventually re-create the killmail…

Seriously, you are just making excuses for a bad system. I should not have to create a blog or video diary or whatever in order to do what the game itself should be doing anyway.

Oh come on…it goes a bit deeper than that. How about ’ I was there…oh and I see from the universally available system that CCP instigated after Stefnia suggest it…that you were there too. Nice to meet someone else who was there ’ .

I don’t know how you can say this with a straight face. It’s kind of Cilly.

Man, I kind of feel bad for you. Having people gatekeep like that. Just get away from those people.

Every time I’ve had this moment it’s been „I was there“ then „yeah me too“ and then camaraderie and carousing. No one bothers trying to play zKill detective to figure out if they’re lying about being there.