Should just lock it at this point , this is just a cesspool of nothing important 
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Everyoneâs idea of âbetterâ will be different, and will often make life worse for others. There really isnât often a happy medium, as most things people want for âbetterâ canât be half doneâŚthey are either integral steps or complete removals.
That is why the best improvements are those that affect one side without affecting the other. I long ago suggested an optional âplay penâ area for noobs under 60 days. They can voluntarily leave when they want, but get booted out into âEve properâ after 60 days. This would have very little impact on most gankingâŚsure, people under 60 days do get ganked but its a small percentageâŚand would give noobs more time to learn the ropes.
This is far and away the reason EVE is broken. When you set impossible bars for people to talk about their own and othersâ experiences, it is simply because you are scared that they may actually be right.
EVE is complex and balancing the needs of older and newer players is difficult, but saying that people are not entitled to be considered as acting in good faith if they do not gank, or have not recently ganked, or havenât played much, or started too long ago, or any other completely arbitrary reason that you have decided, is a terrible argument that is why most people choose to walk away.
Ultimately you can pretend that the other people have been listened to and that has âruined the gameâ, yet the âcarebearsâ remain largely uncatered to in terms of the dynamic between veteran and new players. What is it you feel that carebears have been given in the last decade specifically to stop ganking?
Actually, no. Because players who read forums make up about 5% of the player base of games. And forumites generally donât do it until after they start playing, and theyâre generally more likely to stick with a game. And CCP doesnât pay much attention to the forums anyway.
Yes, Gloria only wants an echo chamber where only people whoâve effectively proven they share the same viewpoint in the game have valid opinions. But thatâs effectively irrelevant to EVEâs success or lack thereof.
You and Gloria actually share a problem, you both tend to think that your own personal experience is âthe core of what drives the gameâ, for good or bad. Even though youâre both outliers on the curve. And in Gloriaâs case, even though their viewpoint shifts every time they try something different in the game.
EVE has 25,000 accounts online right now. Maybe 200 of those are in the forum. Your story and circumstances are very important to you (or Gloria). But theyâre only one story in hundreds of thousands of players.
âFar and away the reason EVE is brokenâ is because it has some structurally bad mismatches between what players expect from EVE and what EVE delivers. Because CCP doesnât really appear to understand the connection between the way they design the game and the things that actually motivate players.
And so itâs always only appealed to a very niche audience, and that niche audience is getting smaller over time.
NoâŚIâm talking about the large number of cases where people arenât talking about their own experience, which is more than welcome, but are theorycrafting and generalising the experience of others. Itâs where people extrapolate their experience, or that of a friend or acquaintance, or even something they have vaguely heard of, and somehow work out that everyone has that experience.
This vicarious âcaringâ is the problem, not because the people doing it may not actually be caring, but because they really donât have the widespread information to be able to speak on behalf of all players.
I wouldnât make recommendations to CCP about wormholes as I have rarely ever been in a wormhole. So how is it OK for people who have never done any PvP to make recommendations to CCP about PvP ? We get so many âXYZ is ruining Eveâ threads from people who have never done or experienced XYZ.
NoâŚIâve never said anything of the sort. My whole point has been that people recommending to CCP what they should do about some âissueâ ought to actually have had direct experience of that issue.
That I do comment just on my personal experience is the whole point ! Iâm not telling CCP what they should do about wormholes, when Iâve rarely been in one.
Because thereâs likely a fairly broad definition of PVP that means most players have engaged with it in some way. Saying people have to have been gankers to dislike the current ganking mechanics is reductive.
Your source of information for this is ?
See, this is precisely my point. People throw about âmost playersâ like confettiâŚbased on assumptions and not actual data.
My source is the experience of myself and 20 other players I joined with.
You think most players have not engaged in a form of PVP? I would say that is a bolder statement.
And you and 20 others are âmost playersâ ? Thatâs oddâŚI thought there were 28,000 people playing.
Fair enough, being obtuse is one way of doing it. Do you have any evidence that âmost playersâ donât engage with PVP?
I donât have any evidence either wayâŚwhich is precisely why I wouldnât say what âmost playersâ do.
The whole point about personal experience is not that it is generic for everyoneâŚquite the reverse. It is that it provides precisely the ability to refute âmost playersâ type arguments or â XYZ is making noobs leaveâ type arguments.
Thus when people say âganking makes people leaveââŚI can at least say, well it didnât make me leave, and that at least counts as a data point against the argument. So its not a case of arguing that oneâs experience is globalâŚrather it is the ability to argue against global arguments.
I joined with 20 players, and they absolutely had the same experience - in fact, we tried to work through it as a group.
But like I said, this is just being obtuse and gatekeeping the argument. If you think that the majority of players havenât experienced PVP in some form, and are therefore unequipped to talk about it, I think itâs because youâre afraid of what they would say about it.
GoshâŚlucky you. Yet somehow none of your 20 colleagues would defend your wormhole while you were away for a few days ? Hmm.
Did you miss the part where that was 8 years prior and they all left within a few months? or are you just doing your roundabout thing again? Ignore the substance, focus on something glib. Like I said, gatekeeping an argument you know youâd be afraid of hearing unfiltered.
Political debate globally since around 2006 or so.
Always the same wing.
You know what wing 
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Who else was there in Jita when we all rioted to protest against CCP? (Tbh I forget what we were protesting at the moment 
itâs been a while)
Oh god. The game is decades old. Can someone tell me if CCP still have any of the original devs working on the game? What do you expect at this point? Itâs not even just Eve, itâs everything these days - look what happened to Star Wars and Halo, these games get ran into the ground eventually when they get sold to corporations who operate strictly based on revenue. Theyâre only going to go for statistically what brings in the most bucks.
And then of course you have all of the dumb carebears from other MMOs who want to bring other MMO game mechanics into Eve, where of course it doesnât belong because Eve has never been about that life. Which is why itâs so unique even to this day. Eve is truly one of a kind.
Can we fix it? Yes we can! Vote for Ares to Make Eve Great again!
No, I think itâs more likely I simply ceased to careâŚ
