Eves new direction via eve vegas leaks!

There’s no question about it any more. For a while I thought CCP was just a bit tone deaf and didn’t understand their players. Now I think CCP is actively trying to kill more effortful play styles in favor of monolithic nullsec space empires. At some point they decided that giving players the tools to make their space exceptionally safe was a better direction than using spontaneous conflict to generate content.

Think about it. It’s probably more stable to have a game where alliances create empires that allow their players to play casually. They can log in for a few hours, munch some rocks, do their dailies, maybe go on a fun roam for a bit or respond to a ping, and occassionally log in for a big fleet. Then they can log and it doesn’t matter. More people are able to fulfill that moment of desire and awe that we all have when we were first starting out and thought about what it would be like to have the biggest, most epic vessels in the galaxy at our disposal as supers and titans become less rare and capitals in generally become very common. Eve is a theme park. And in a sense, that game sounds amazing - totally player built, player sustained empires. Conflict driven by (highly marketable and enticing) politics, intrigue, and massive, albeit infrequent and largely inconsequential, wars. That game sounds amazing. But it isnt eve for many of us.

By contrast, other playstyles that rely on generating unsolicited or spontaneous conflict require immense time and effort. Hours, days, or weeks of prep to kill a single titan seems insane in an era of cheap and prolific supercaps. And besides, who would do that? Most content in eve is generated by a vanishingly small number of people. How could CCP rely on a few clearly deranged people willing to go to extraordinary lengths for a few hours of conflict when they can point to the massive recent wars as success stories?

The failing here is in recognizing that what makes eve special is that it isnt casual. It isn’t easy. Eve is hard, and scary, and a lot of work. There are consequences - and because there are consequences, victories seem meaningful. With CCP seeming to shift towards a style of play where megacoalitions can create consequence-free space, time zone tank their enemies, and easily and quickly replace any losses, I’m afraid we’re going to see the end of eve as a sandbox for everyone and the beginning of eve as a theme park, potentially only a sandbox for the leaders of megablocs who are maintaining their space. Maybe you dont think that’s bad, and thats fine, but there are lots of different playstyles in eve, and CCP is working very hard to kill one of the most important ones.


General complaint, what are your specific solutions ?

Yep. A couple of years ago, this post would have been hooted at as the worst possible kind of conspiracy theory. This year, I think you’re right on. We’ve heard hints and notions of this over and over again at player gatherings over the last few years: what can CCP do to get players to start playing EVE and keep playing EVE. The most recent iteration was brought up yesterday, the “-2+30” talk.

What about EVE might be fun is increasingly less relevant; the focus is on player retention.

As this has happened, we’ve seen two play styles become more relevant and focused on, at the expense of every other play style: null-sec coalitions, and solo and very small group PvE. These are the two groups of players that get subscribed early, stay subscribed long-term, create the most inducement to bring their friends into EVE, create the most positive spin for the game, and (by and large) create the least drama for CCP. That’s where virtually all the focus was at Fanfest, and that’s where virtually all the focus has been at EVE Vegas.

Even features that seem to be favorable to people who have other play styles really aren’t. Everyone who has been going off about how dull the “arena” PvP in abyssal deadspace might be haven’t brought up the truly insulting and objectionable thing about it: it’s entirely optional . You can skip it if you don’t want to do it, and most will do exactly that.

Because optional PvP is clearly a core tenet of EVE.


This is quite possibly the worst idea I have seen CCP come up with in the 8 years I have been playing. Exactly what is the need that is being addressed here? the ability for capitals to move around their own space quicker with less fatigue? the ability for sub cap defense fleets to deploy quicker? as if 7 minutes and a cyno bridge wasn’t good enough?

Current mechanics heavily favor defenders. Roams of more than 3 dudes that do no originate from a WH will be effectively dead after this.

1 Like

So let’s do a 2018 recap…

PA purchases CCP Games.

CCP plans on releasing no jump fatigue gates creating a super cap highway aka Fortress Delve on steroids.

CCP ignores other forms of gameplay.

“Optional” forms of pvp (lol what!???)

Mobile cash cow app coming to an app store near you.

Please Clap at Vegas. Please.

Why on Earth do any of you still play this garbage? You all are being milked like a cow at this point with CCP catering to the play styles that will clearly provide the best revenue stream/player retention for profit margins. Surely you all can see CCP clearly doesn’t give a ■■■■ about the “players” (lol wormholes/lowsec), and will continue to beat you like an abused spouse till you cough up that sweet sweet microtransaction money.

I mean hey it’s your free time and money do what you want with it, but if I still played, I’d get my core buddies and go play something else at this rate. Good luck dudes whatever you do, it’s just kinda sad seeing Eve Online go down the toilet looking at the situation on the outside.

Best of luck.


Must admit putting in jump fatigue because you found it was needed then essentially rolling a lot of it backwards isnt saying good things about EVE development teams.

p.s. Obligatory, can i has your stuff ?

1 Like

Stick with one character, please.

It’s annoying when you roll through your entire character collection for whatever reason is in your head for doing it. Make it easier for you and us both, okay?

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:


@Shailagh_Rose contract me your stuff … thanks!! i take all … doesnt matter where it is …

you know … play style is play style … games change … play style change

you should maybe try to point direct an hat the problem is you see



–Gadget’s Social score increases by 1 post.

_ .!.


If you think there isn’t optional pvp in EvE then you probably don’t play. Because the place with the most optional pvp is hisec. They can steal from you all they want, but they cant make you shoot them.

1 Like

… leaks? :crazy_face:


ITT: CAM alts talking to each other like they’re separate people. Not everything you say is wrong, but it’s kind of schizophrenic.

1 Like

Eve is my casual game, if I want serious pvp I resub WoW.


Personally, I wouldn’t call it “actively kill” the playstyle, but they have completely given up on it. To be fair, they just stick to their own words: not working on things, that don’t bring in enough. I mean, we could probably take a look at how that became a self-fulfilling prophecy, but then we’d have to look years back and I don’t really see the point in that.

I wonder how sustainable their push to mega-coalitions is.

On the one hand, we’ve seen how large the crowd affiliated with the big groups is, in Vegas and otherwise. These groups attract players and while many are organized in smaller groups, the large ones present a coherent, long-term picture. I suppose that’s a good thing in CCP’s books - reliable.

On the other hand there might be a wall waiting on the other side of current events. Sov Nullsec used to be this trade-off between reaping juicy fruits and higher effort/risk. Now it is by far the most easy place to play in. Every other place in EVE is harder - in any way. “Has been”, “was intended to” aside, I wonder if this won’t create an actual problem in terms of entertainment.

EVE without players challenging each other through clever use of mechanics is … well is totally boring. That’s not bad-talking about the game I like, it’s just fact. There is pretty much nothing to do without other players, other than running around large amounts of space that is repetetive, poor in depth and offers almost nothing to explore. Even for the many PVE focussed players in large Nullblobs, it’s the other players, friends or enemies, who make the game interesting.

Now the mechanical and behavioural challenges have shifted over the past couple of years quite a bit, as you described nicely. At the same time, we have seen more and more players simply not accepting the challenge anymore. I think this is not your usual giving up in frustration: no, this is a new quality. Players, who have played this game for a decade or longer are declaring that they don’t accept the “win conditions” that CCP set. They are partly perceived as boring, grindy, unintelligent and simply not providing entertainment for a smart crowd.

This could create a problem for farmville online. I think we have seen signs of that during the Imperiums operations in the North. While many of the Imperium members had a good time, finally being able to deliver some pain after being the victim of NCPL or other baddies for so long, what I found remarkable was how clearly unmotivated the other side was. It may be due to the beating they got, but I think part of it was also the realization that many of theirs are simply not seeing the necessary industrial grind as a fun game - and in turn, don’t care enough to fight for their stuff.

My guess is that this will only continue. Personally I think Rorquals, active moon mining and all of that are an insult towards the somewhat intelligent playerbase. Hell, it’s an insult to the game itself to develop it towards this kind of farming simulation. This might just produce more and more unwillingness to give fights, to entertain each other. When there is exactly one solution to “a problem” and that solution is Rorquals, Superratting and (hello Init) botting, it’s not a challenge of wits, it’s a challenge of who gets bored first. And that could be the wall I was talking about earlier. No one feels inspired by the bot/grind/donut mechanics of today. The wall that it will lead into, is the wall of no content, boredom for even the most easily excited line members and finally inactivity.

The danger of basically pushing people towards the blob, is that downward cycles in a blob are much more rapid than in smaller groups - if they happen. If a bunch of smaller groups become dysfunctional and cease to exist: not an issue, others will pick up the remaining members and will create new stories. If larger groups fall apart, the gravity of such events rips more players out of the game. If megablobs start contracting the desease of no content (because there is no one else accepting the mechanical challenges), things become dangerous.

So, at the one hand, being in a group certainly helps players sticking with the game, yes. The larger, the more more you can handle some fluctuation without having negative effects. On the other hand though, creating a game in which players don’t accept the challenges (because they think these challenges are stupid), bears the danger of mass boredom, centralized and organized in mega-blobs - possibly not repairable if it ever comes to a downward cycle due to lack of meaningful conflict.

This is not the Imperiums fault, mind you, it is just that under current game mechanics the possibility for “fun roams” further and further declines. Unless you consider hunting each others ratting/mining bots a “fun roam”. The remaining blobs do what they have to: be efficient and try to keep things together, while thereby being part of making the game boring for themselves.

For people who never lived some kind of PVP style, this will not matter immediately I suppose. Line members, who join fleets when asked to, having some fun and all; they may not miss it overly much, once content dries up. They will however start to crumble, when their PVE profits can’t pay for their alts PLEX anymore. Which is a possible result of this agenda of order and peace that CCP is pushing over the game.

The best conflict/content killer is creating an imbalance in risk/effort/reward that leads players to say: “Thanks for the offer, but I don’t accept this challenge. I rather do something else with my life.” We always joke about conceptions of “imbalance”, but when it bites our ass, it suddenly becomes clear as the night, that balance is the best conflict driver.

That balance was formerly delivered by variety of choices in playstyles and a variety of “win conditions”. Now it is getting more single solution problem, or theme park if you like. This is the imbalance, not that some groups are adapting to it or others don’t. It’s not an imbalance of strength, but an imbalance of choices.

Do I think it sucks? Yep. Do I think this is the end of EVE? Probably not. It surely costs the game depth and continues to do so. Even if this is slowly turning into a game that I don’t find interesting anymore, I hope CCP is having success with the path they’ve chosen. I do think that it could be a bit short-sighted as I’ve tried to argue, but I also hope that I’m wrong about that.

Maybe one day there will be a statue somewhere in New Eden saying:

"This is a memorial for all those who lost their ships to other players. New Eden used to be like the West - uncontrolled and wild, dangerous and free. Luckily, not anymore. EVE freed itself from the burden of PVP and has become civilized and orderly, peaceful and hard-working. Take a moment to remember all those who lost their lives on the path to eternal boredom.


Sometimes I wonder if we are all playing the same game; then I think about the issue of perceptions magnified by fears of change, and desire to buttress their favorite play style(s), and then the fog seems to lift.

It is human nature to fear the worst, but I do feel a lot of these expressed fears are a bit overdone, with a bit too much drama.

One of the biggest problems I see with this game is the hardening and inflexibility of many different factions of the player-base. That can destroy a game just as well as bad game design.

1 Like

We do, but it looks different to each of us, depending on our expectations. What you may perceive as fear of change, could just be the process of realization that is part of every separation. Realization of how ones loyalty to a common cause is not anymore shared or mirrored by the other. It’s a painful process for some, but ultimately it’s not producing fear, but simply understanding of the necessity to let go or redefine the base of the relation - between players and game. Depending on where you personally are standing, this could be completely invisible to you, because you still feel embraced.

The hardening and inflexibility of the player-base, that you mention, is something that I perceive as the division between those who are happy with the current mechanics and those who ask themselves why they even still log in. Of course some may make a bit of a drama about it, but don’t let us bother you. Just lean back and enjoy our misery, EVE style.

p.s. in other words, the lack of understanding is mutual

The artist is often blind to his critics.

CCP are no different.

Sure smearing ■■■■ on a canvas is art to some [some might even consider eve as is to be just like that] but sometimes you have to wonder if they aren’t just a little bit crazy.

1 Like

I can’t wait for the moment this time finally has come.

If it ever does, there willl be tens of thousands of ex-players, who remember the game for what it once was: a challenge for smart people. When I first told some of my friends “I play EVE”, I saw the tension this created. They were thinking about doing it too, some actually have later on, but they knew playing EVE is a decision, not a random choice. They’ve heard about the challenges that it provides and they were both fascinated by it and a bit unsure, if they could prevail.

In my view, everybody who wants EVE to become peaceful or supports mechanics that create imbalance of choice, hates the game for the challenge it was. They may still claim the feathers of its name, but truly they don’t play the same game. Once they realize how shallow and meaningless the grind on its own is, they’ll wish that CODE and wardeccers, lowsec pirates and wormhole maestros came back. It will be too late. Nobody will care that “they play EVE”, because it will be like proudly carrying the flag after not participating in war. Like going to raves after they became legal and orderly. Like moving to Brooklyn in the 90s or Berlin in the 10s. Pretension.