Just keep on with your mindless PvPing and let CCP take care of their game, they know much more what the game needs than you’ll ever know.
You’re right, no one specifies what is being won.
Fights. Simple as that. Almost, actually there’s more…
When you spend all of your time making a something like a Praxis that can tank forever, has the highest DPS you can pull off and watch that investment go poof because some nitwit just made a new account and packed it full of skill injectors you start to see where Eve is teetering on the edge.
Watching two day old Orca pilots strip astroid belts, seeing fleets of identical brand new alts bait concord and gank everything in sight, that’s the sort of thing that people mean by pay to win in Eve, the rest of us did it the hard way and earned it, some people just drop cash and BOOOM they can fly a Titan.
Anything on the Eve market (Eve store I mean, the one on the web, not ingame) that makes that sort of thing possible needs to go in my opinion.
I’m not sure what I think of the ones people make them selves, as I understand it they have to buy (from the store) the extractors, then strip their characters of skills they don’t care about to make injectors, if that is the process they should also have to make the extractors and have the skills to do so.
CCP could make a killing just off of purely cosmetic stuff but they don’t take it far enough so they do things like sell new people things that will actually hinder the learning process and then go away, that’s pretty cynical in my opinion, though I have yet to see this in action and will wait to see how it goes.
The reason I think that corvettes are good ships to start in is that they are simple,crazy to learn, and free to replace. Plop an actual new person in a cruiser before they know how to fly and they will be toast. Get them to pay to do so and you are creating disgruntled people who don’t know what they are doing. Even if this brand new person has some success, they didn’t earn it, they bought it from CCP, and that’s pay to win in Eve.
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That’s only because it’s not been released yet, new players dying over and over because they don’t understand how things work yet happens constantly. They don’t know why someone can come kill them and why they can’t do it back, that alone has gotten rid of almost all of the people I’ve tried to get to play Eve.
“If it’s a PvP game, why do NPC’s kill me when I try to shoot people? What’s the friggin point when they can come and shoot me any time they want?”
Trying to explain why, and then realizing that the rules of Eve are so insanely complex it will take months makes it pointless, I’ve done it over and over, and it’s never worked, they lose interest after the first few hours of listening to rules that boil down to “you can’t do things”.
I’ve stopped inviting people to play Eve, there’s no point, they will quit and I will have wasted a hell of a lot of time trying to explain that the reason they can be killed, but can’t go round killing is for their own protection… From the people killing them who are using a loophole. When I realized after finaly begining to grasp these rules that I will be killed for trying to defend people I nearly quit. If I’m in a fleet with someone new and someone shoots them I should be able to help, but if I do, along comes Concord.
This also creates miners and people who never leave highsec when they do stay, and that is rare.
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Yeah, if you put it to them like that it might be, but the rules just aren’t that complex.
Basic right of way rules of driving are about similar levels of complexity to EVE.
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Not so simple. You don’t win fights by throwing money at the game. You actually have to know what you’re doing. And if winning fights is the only goal of EVE then it’s pretty shallow, but I don’t think it’s the only goal, not for me at least.
I’m sure that nitwit didn’t just throw money at the game though. I think the nitwit has scoped you out long before you fitted your Praxis. That nitwit planned it out carefully, even with the help of a friend who fed him info.
That doesn’t show EVE teetering on the edge, it’s a valid play, encouraged by CCP.
CCP allows the use of Alts in that way. It’s part of the game and no one forbids you of doing the same if you want to.
It’s commendable but no more than that. You don’t get to dictate what another player does just because you did it the hard way. Players are free to do whatever they want within the Rules of EVE, which are few.
I don’t understand how some people are fine when someone takes advantage over another with his money in real life but complain when someone does it in a game. It’s beyond my comprehension. If “life is not fair” then how can anyone expect a game that involves spending money to be fair?
Why? Because it facilitates a sort of gameplay you don’t think is fair? See my answer above… CCP is a business, it’s not a Gamemaster.
They do. Capsuleers do buy skins, too.
I think you underestimate new players. Not all of them are 15yo. Most of them can use their brain and the ones who don’t, well, can’t fix stupid.
Welcome to business. When money talks, BS walks.
I love corvettes. They allow me to go where I wouldn’t go in a blinged-out Cruiser, like Null space where I can mine a few things to do a little manufacturing and actually use those blueprint copies I get for free when I log in.
Depends where they go with it. A new player can do a mission in a cruiser and come back in one piece. I’ve done it several times. It’s fun.
Again, I think you underestimate new players. Few are stupid. Many join corporations and are fine.
Why? Because they paid to get to kill NPC’s in a Cruiser? Why impute it from them? They did undock, they did fly to the site, they did fight and win and did learn a few things in the process. What you say is just mean, period.
Any player has bought something from CCP, if only the Omega time to be able to use tech2 and 3 ships and modules while Alpha players cannot, why isn’t that Pay-to-Win?
CCP, CSM, and ISD aren’t always going to answer ?s on the forum. But yes, you can’t trust the answers of every rando on the forums. But you can read the answers and then do a bit of googling to verify or contradict. Just like in the rookie help channel, just like in the newbie NPC corp channels, just like in EVE Uni channel, even.
Trust but verify.
No one who does the career agent missions in this game ever has to buy their first destroyer (or their first few frigs, or their first racial t1 hauler, or their first 2 ventures):
Like so.
Yeah, well… if that’s true, then I knew earlier on I wanted to try and do a lot of things, since that’s what I ended up doing my first year. ;D And I still do most of the things I did that first year in some form or fashion. Just in varying degrees and amounts of time spent.
Excellent history lesson for those who didn’t know it, Arrendis. And good brush up for those of us who did, but might have forgotten some of the particulars. 
I love my skillqueue!
Now, I remember my first year on my first toon. It was frustratingly slow on some skills. I was trying to get into sentries for my Myrmidon after 2-3 months of playing, and the Drone Interfacing 5 and Sentry Drone Interfacing 5 (my first two L5s after Drones 5 itself, IIRC) were slow af.
But to me, it was pretty rewarding that the skills trained whether I was online or off.
In the end, the main limiting factor for me became the limitations of having just 1 toon. So by 11 months in, I was tired enough of docking up my ratting/combat exploration/mission ship to swap to Noctis to loot and salvage (this was well before I had trained any BS to 5 or even dreamed of training into marauders, also… hell, I didn’t even have HAC-related stuff in my training queue yet, though I had a vague plan to get into one of dem Ishtars I saw all the time in my cosmic signatures beating me to the boss kill and loot)…
… and thus I made Sylvia here as my Noctis alt. And she perfected it, where my oldest toon hadn’t had the time to (yet). She then trained into cov ops/scanning (also more thoroughly than my main had, tho not perfected), she eventually trained into Vexors and Myrmidons and Dominixes herself and was only a few months behind my main when I finally did train into Ishtar(s). And so ever since I’ve had the flexibility of combat/salvager, or combat/scanner, or combat/logi, or combat/combat (leading to double marauder pilots, all 4… and boy was that a nice decision in hindsight right about now!).
(and then I got into incursions, had to buy a booster alt when the head FC went on vacation and fleet was about to lose its most reliable booster toon, and then the 3rd toon became that utility toon that could start to fill any role while the first 2 toons mostly did the bulk of the combat work, be it PVE or PVP…)
Anyway, the reason I bring all that up is to mention that I personally got impatient with my skillqueue a lot less often once I had a 2nd main, basically, and a 2nd skillqueue. Because that way if I was getting tired of 20, 30, 40 day trains on one toon, the other toon could be hearing “skill training complete!” multiple times a day from Aura by training up all those L1+2+3+4s she was behind on vs. the oldest toon. And on and on.
A 3rd/booster toon only enhanced that effect. So 2013-2014 I was ye olde (relatively) impatient newb, 2014-2015 I was finding it a bit difficult to train into PVE and PVP gameplay at the same time, even with 2 toons, getting into t2 gun specs and such… but overall more enjoyable Skillqueue Online experience. And 2015-2021 with 3 toons and being able to do most of what I wanted to be able to do already… been EZ street by comparison to that first year or two!
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I love the idea of having a starter trio system of High, Low, and Null. 
Yeah, I may have gone a bit too far by banning vets altogether. But there should be a hard limit on what type of ships you can use there and what type of modules.
I see faction warfare guys that fly maxed skilled asteros with billions worth of implants and stuff and seal club, anyone, that they come in contact with.
and that’s what I really don’t get. It’s not a challenge for them and the T1 ships they meet don’t stand much of a chance.
I agree somewhat with the NPE focus although, I would say that CCP did a fantastic job with the PVE experience in abyssal space. That’s really fun and if they could make ratting and mining just as engaging and fun it would make sense to have that in the NPE.
When it comes to mining I’ve always wondered…astroids travel at thousands of kilometers in real-life space so why isn’t asteroid mining an active activity where you have to “chase” astroids. Mining would also be much more rewarding if the rewards were dynamic so for example, sometimes you find a HUGE rock of dense veldspar that you can be happy about as a new player. Right now, it’s just more or less the same everywhere. No real surprises or rewards.
It’s refreshing to see this blind confidence, and not understanding that especially the EvE player base harbors x times the number of specialists that work for ccp, including its management. The knowledge base of the community is far larger, and quite obviously so is its experience as user of this product. We, players, want EvE to continue to exist. And we are not paid to do so, so our intentions are at the very least clean. So, if devs start acting like they really belong in the Rookie Help, asking questions, we’ll speak up.
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I’d like to believe it but when players start talking about “income” to subside the purchase of PLEX to pay for Omega, those intentions come out a bit stained.
For the majority of suggestions, one always has to ask “cui bono” first, to uncover agendas. But for overall direction a game takes, or changes to that effect, it’s less of an issue.
But you replied to me on an answer given to someone who asked me…
…as if I have no business in Null, as if the ores in Null only belonged to them and not anyone who manages to mine it, be it a newer player or a vet.
I feel like people who live in Null think it’s their space, like newer players aren’t allowed to go and be in Null to do whatever they want - I almost wrote “get away with”, so much it feels like Null is Private Property and only they are allowed to be in Null - and have fun there killing pirates, mine or whatever.
I know that making ISK is important to certain players to pay for that much-covetted PLEX so they can subscribe without spending real cash but blowing up everyone and their grandmother to claim a section of space to PLEX an account isn’t “clean intentions” to me.
I think the question might have more been ‘why are you going into null via gates, when that’s basically a deathtrap?’ I mean, the suggestion immediately following is ‘get into null via wormholes’. Which is a sound suggestion, since that method’s less likely to get you killed trying to get in and out on a gate.
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I don’t have any experience with wormholes yet and I will do that when I know more about them but meanwhile, I will go to Null in my corvettes and mine the ore, whether anyone likes it or not.
Nobody’s saying ‘don’t go to null’. We’re suggesting ways to get there and back with a greater chance of getting your ore out to market.
By the way, what kind of mining lasers are you using on your corvette? I’m asking because I’ve just done some testing over the last 24 hrs with ‘what do I get for free?’ vs ‘Venture + 2 meta mining lasers’ and the difference is… insane.
A Reaper w/a pair of civilian mining lasers takes about 45 minutes to get 1000m3 of ore. The venture does it in about 2 minutes.
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Right.
Doesn’t matter. I can mine all night and all day. If I get the ore I need without wasting a Venture, that’s a good deal for me.
Sure, but it’s the difference between 135m3 that you have to drop off / get out every 6 minutes or so, and 5000m3 that you get in under 10 minutes.
So we’re talking about 20x the haul. If you can mine all day and all night, that’s still 20x as much mined all day and all night.
Also, yeah, it still matters. The free Civilian Miner you get on a corvette (and you need 2 of those to get the mining rate listed above) gets 36m3 per minute, the Miner I gets 40m3. So over an hour, you’re getting 2 more holds of ore. Over ‘all day and night’, that all adds up.
A cheaply-fit Venture comes in about a million ISK (less if you buy the hull someplace NOT the Forge. They’re about half-price in Metropolis). How many Ventures do you expect to lose per run into null?
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I don’t care. If I have to do 200x the haul I will do that.
I don’t want to find out, that’s the point. The way PvPers are so bored I wouldn’t be surprised to lose the Venture even before I get to an asteroid belt.
They’re just as likely to go after a corvette. The Venture, though, has a built-in level of warp stabilization, so you’re more likely to not lose the Venture than you are to not lose the corvette.
Maybe, but if they do, I would’ve lost nothing but a little time since it’s a free corvette. And I dock at another station to get two corvettes so that way I fit it with two civilian miners.
So you say. With webbers and all those gysmos tech3 stuff, I can kiss my million-isk Venture goodbye in a heartbeat. I’m not making isk to buy Ventures. I’m playing the game the way I want to and doing what I do is fun for me. Plus I can bring back that ore to manufacture and sell. It’s 100% profit minus my time, which has become cheap ever since I got worthless for working in real life and being useful to a business.
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