I’m sure, many wishes to shoot Hilmar on any ship he pilots at least once and be recorded on zkill.
Then sell his frozen corpse? 
1 Like
It is, nobody is questioning the convenience. Doesn’t change the fact that their design is another missed opportunity to create something really good. It could be so much better, and easily so.
Because despite them making “living better”, they require a much larger defense force and are a far worse force multipliers in combat. Which means, “punching down” has been made much easier, evicting these small groups has been made much easier. To the point where many small groups just left WH space once the M-Structures got their 3rd timer removed, because those stations literally turned into loot pinatas for any midsize eviction group. Well, even multiboxers do it these days.
I was online right when that patch hit TQ and the week after I barely found a lowclass WH where the M-Structures weren’t either reinforced already or in unanchoring timer…
Story, don't read if you aren't interested in a honest discussion
Imagine you have a small corp of 10 real people. Lets say they have 15-20 accounts and are not super-rich veterans already. So, the typical “we come from another game and try out EVE” group after some months of playing. They made some cash, they learned the basics of the game and they want to settle in a small lowclass WH to have something they call “Home” and can build an identity around. At this point, please realize that THIS is the starting ground for a long-year-customer relationsship if CCP would realize that from those small groups long-term players arise, maybe evolving into midsize groups over time and at some point being the future generation of CEOs, FCs or large alliance founders. If you just give them a chance to live.
Now see what really does happen: These guys don’t have the cash to drop a Fortizar, of course not. Even to buy a fully-equipped Astra, Raitaru and Athanor for their indu jobs is a real achievement for them.
So they log in one day and find all their structures reinforced. On the attack notification are 5 guys in NPC corps, no killboard record at all. They risklessly RFed the stations overnight with a handful of cheap BCs or Kikis. You have no idea what will come to the timer - but it will be the final timer already.
So, what do you do?
- Option A) You prepare for a fight, thinking that those 5 unknown chars are clearly no threat. From your 10 real people maybe 6 can come to the timer (RL issues). So you get 10 ships in Fleet plus your Astra. Unfortunately for you, to the timer a 30 man Eos-Fleet plus some support arrives. All experienced PvPers. You will get completely obliterated and your corp will lose everything they built up over the last months. Chance of fighting back: Zero.
- Option B) You instantly evacuate everything. Cancelling all jobs, moving millions of m³ in Ships and Assets out of your hole in DSTs, through potentially surveilled/camped chains. Spending hours over hours with logistics. Remember: The attackers just spent like an hour semi-afk letting a bunch of Oracles/Kikis cycle their guns… could even be one guy multiboxing while watching Youtube.
You guys have to ping, get everyone who can online and spend hours for rolling and hauling and wasting probably hundreds of millions from cancelling jobs alone. All that to limiting your losses to just the Citadels in case an attacker comes that you can’t handle… - Option C) You call for help, pay Mercs (will probably cost billions or even be a scam…) or if you have in the game - some friends. Lets say they even come and you bring a 30-50 man defense fleet to your timer. Then what? The attacker sees it and simply blueballs you. Your stations are safe, the hired mercs leave. You paid billions and next week the attacker simply reinforces your stations again, because its so easy. Back to the beginning.
That being said: You can only lose. So what happens. If A) happens, it can easily be that this corp is destroyed over it. That the players quit the game and everyone loses. CCP loses customers, the WH loses content. EVE loses future content creators.
If B) happens, you are somewhat happy, until your stations are reinforced the next time. And if it happens one time too often you simply say “screw it” and pick A) or B) which both will lead you to the losing path again. Same for C).
That being said, the design of Citadels only solidifies the dominance of large groups over small and medium groups, by making economic competition impossible even at the entry levels. CCP combined all the worst ideas that anyone could throw at the table and made a “design” out o them, not understanding why POSes worked so well for almost two decades.
Could that be fixed? Yes, easily. But the big blocs don’t want that. They want smaller groups to be defenseless and being easy prey, because that forces them into their renting empires or to be vasalls in their large alliances.
The design of Citadels, including all the related mechanics like Asset Safety, is one of the biggest mistakes CCP ever did, leading to the declining player numbers we have seen over the years. They lose players and even small groups before those could even root in the game so deep that they would stay for years and become the next generation of long-time players. It’s a shame, but I don’t see CCP realizing that.
1 Like
No it is Environment Vs Environment and PvP in this game is a bug. Especially in highsec!!!
Not Elderly Vs Elderly?
1 Like
Entrapment vs Entrapment?
The forum is more like Explanations vs. Excuses…
2 Likes
I see your point.
A deathstar POS could fight back a modest attacking fleet on its own while a dickstar could be a grade A PITA to lay siege to.
In either case, they acted on their own, not requiring them to be manned to shoot back.
What?!
a large POS tower with as many hardeners and jamming modules as it can handle.
Yes, at least they forced an attacker to reveal himself, because you can’t reinforce an armed POS with a handful of afk-alts easily.
It’s extremely hard for massmultiboxers to engage, because you constantly lose locks, need to repair multiple targets at once or have ships neuted dry.
The effort it takes to remove a Deathstar or Dickstar POS makes sure it gets only attacked for a good reason and not just ‘because someone can’ and it being a cheap and easy opportunity to beat down and loot a smaller weaker group.
1 Like
I was promised WIS many years ago!
I’ve done this in a .5 backend system… the “savings” are canceled out, if not exceeded, by the time used to gather the fuel. The higher end tax is the same no matter what system you use unless you get out of Hi sec. I don’t recall exactly what the taxes are… one is the system tax which is the higher of the taxes, and you pay the same at the station as you do a POS. The smaller tax you cut out like 40% of it… but it’s still not saving a whole lot. You can go run 1 lvl 4 mission and make up the difference as well as not dealing with fueling a pos. POS in Hi Sec is complete idiocy for reasons of industry/research. You don’t even get bonuses for time anymore.
My wallet is proof of the opposite. I made hundreds of billions in profit from HS POS industry over the years, just from researching, copying and inventing.
Neither the POS fuel nor taxes play any significant role in the calculations if you simply run many jobs. Which you can easily do, since starting one is a one-click activity.