Exploration Improvements, Escalations, Buffs, New Probes

null-sec

(Elisha Valor) #1

I’d love to see these buffed up a bit to appear more often. I’d also like to see the story line BPC’s you get from them being slightly better than their tech 2 variant, much like most faction items are. Certainly deadspace are.

Exploration is in no way a easy mans game, and it is highly volatile in low and null sec. Exploration poses an even greater risk then lets saying flying around a 2b tengu, legion to do 10/10’s. That drop far better modules and bpc’s.

Why is that? Because all exploration sites, save from the drone escalations are public and there are no escalations to hide yourself in while flying hundreds of jumps in a day through hostile space and spending countless hours probing down what may or may not be there.

The most dangerous aspect? Of course is camping an exploration site. With the idea that you may be able to pop a ship rather easily that could be carrying 50m-100 isk or far more in some cases, including killing a highly valued tech 2 covert ops ship perhaps using a faction module that is if caught essentially defenseless. On top of this knowing how to run the Sleeper sites, and hoping you don’t die in the Ghost sites, all accumulates to the testament of the difficulty of exploration and it is for that reason I would like to see the following.

  1. A revamp of the Story Line BPC’s shield boosters, hardners, armor etc being brought up to that match and surpass the tech 2 variant, to be equal of a C type module. I’ve been exploring for a very long time, and I’ve maybe ran across a few dozen of these over the years and I can tell you that I’ve had several hundred pith c modules in the same expanse of time. So now would be a great time to revamp the drops.

2)Escalations from Null Sec data sites, I say Data and not Relic, due to relic sites already being quite good and because data sites are severely lacking. I’d love to see the same principle on the Drone Data sites applied to the other faction data sites with the same exact escalation chance, and the escalation would spawn with in 1-15 jumps away. Escalation chance seems to be around 5 or 10% hard to tell.

My proposal for escalations, would be the following.

Pirate Faction Sparkling Transmitter, Escalates to Pirate Faction Survey Site.
Pirate Faction Survey Site, Escalates to Pirate Faction Command Center.
Pirate Faction Command Center, Escalates to Pirate Faction Data Mining Site.
Pirate Faction Data Mining Site, Escalates to Improved Covert Research Facility.

Escalations, can escalate to the next chain at a 5% chance.

I believe with my ideas it would help move along data sites into the right direction.

My last suggestion.

  1. Sisters of Eve, Deep Space Probe. This new probe would function similarly to a combat probe, where a scatter at 32 au will show you a hint at all the drones, ships, builds etc are. However, this probe would allow the user to detect the type of signature in a system with out having to completely scan it down to nearly complete allowing a much faster scan of a system to see if what is there peaks your interest… The Caveat… This new probe can only be launched in J space. Wormhole explorers often are faced with 20-30 signatures to scan and many of them are not what they want. Compared to at most an average of 1-5 signatures in null sec, that actually yield fruit making null sec a much more easy place to scan down wanted sites.

I will retort, the new deep space probe when attempting to launch in high,low, or null would give the player an error message that the probes design does not allow function in this space. Would help move along Jspace exploration. Once again it doesn’t give you any % towards progress of scanning down the system, rather just tells you what is there.

Now to keep things fair, you may see a data site, but you will not see the name, you may see a combat site but not see the name. These probes may be used to scan down sites but would only have the scan power of a regular probe to keep the market the same.


(Ramona McCandless) #2

Exploration has never been easier in my experience. The ships that are best for it ate designed to avoid trouble.


(Elisha Valor) #3

The act of exploration is not difficult in itself, the time versus rewards + danger involved is “ok” but it could be better, there are numerous high sec activities that can yield more isk per hour, then null/wh exploration with virtually no danger in high sec. I’d like to see that changed a bit which is why I brought up my suggestions.

Data sites in null have been in bad shape, made worse by flooding the market with the small ancillary armor repairer which used to make them worthwhile running. Due to the fact that players are running them less as they profit more from relics, has lead to a pretty unsustainable inflation in items requiring tech 2 salvage found in data sites.

If we can some how make Data sites great again, I’m more then willing to hear all options regarding data sites. I do not like increasing amount of items found in data sites as I simply hate the idea of a God figure flooding the market. Instead allowing more opportunities for better data sites I think is the best solution and improving on what we already have in the sleeper sites to make the items a bit better, but not so far that it disrupts the balance of the market on the other items that also take risk getting (some times) a lot of Pith C items are from high sec and take no risk at all and are often times far more valuable and better then the storyline counter parts in Sleeper sites that not only take far more risk discovering, but risk in actually not dying in the site to gas clouds, sentries, people combat scanning you down etc.

I would like to see the improvements I’ve suggested above, as would everyone like to see their own ideas come to fruition. I’m more then open to other ideas on how to improve exploration risk versus reward, reward versus time spent and the lack luster data sites found in null sec/wh space.


(Ramona McCandless) #4

No thanks.


(Circumstantial Evidence) #5

ISD: good thread for F&I

I like the idea of adding escalations to some hack / relic sites.

But, getting an overhaul of storyline parts is a big request. Designers may tackle some of it in the next round of module tier-a-cide, whenever that happens. They can’t fix storyline parts w/o addressing the balance of every other part in its lineup, so it ends up being a lot of work.


(Elisha Valor) #6

Why would you not want to improve the data sites in eve online? They’ve always been lacking in comparison to importance with relic sites. It is in my opinion that the whole system needs revamped. Why would you be against something that could potentially make you more profit and more activity down the line?

The excuse " They are fine, ccp doesn’t need to change things to suit you" is over played and I already felt that reply coming. The overwhelming majority of the exploration community, (The reason why we play eve) is looking for more out of this. Exploration is not a side job in eve online, it’s a time consuming, painstaking task that consumes more time and risks more then many professions in eve online.

CCP did great with the wormhole adding relic/data to c1-c3, though there is much improvement needed. Explorers risk just as much if not more in time and ferrying items worth hundreds of million as much as any T3 pilot does, it’s time for a change.


(Ramona McCandless) #7

I have no idea where you are getting that from, but its rubbish.

You just want more Isk/hr for less work.

Exactly; virtually no risk at all


(Elisha Valor) #8

I’ve been an avid explorer pilot starting in 2008. Exploration always appealed to me. And I can say fairly certain that I am in the top 100 of all time explorers time wise in eve online, if not in the top 50. I’ve been doing exploration and ded sites for nearly a decade.

Why do I bring this up? To counter your ridiculous notion that I just want more isk for less work. Nothing in my suggestions above indicated that I wanted more isk per hour for less work.

You have no idea where the time consuming and painstaking task that is exploration comes from? Then I can tell you with out a doubt that you do not do exploration for a living, and you should remove yourself from the subject.

On a good 8 hour session I can span easily 130-140 jumps on average with an average of 3-4 minutes per system scanning down sites. Now a good 25% of those jumps really do not have anything in them and I don’t have to scan so I just move on. When I find relic sites and data sites. I have to not only check the kill history for that system to insure no one is killing explorers, if players are in there I also check their kill history. If I feel like things are well and good then I proceed to hack the cans, constantly spamming d scan and keeping an eye out for predators. Now tell me again, how my comment was Rubish that it’s time consuming and a painstaking task? - Nothing of this is a problem btw, I am explaining to you the task of being an actual explorer.

I’ve already thought to myself that you’re just trolling and I think you might be.

Now on to the idea that an explorer isn’t as valueable as a person who runs ded sites. Well you couldn’t be further from the truth. Even if you did run around in a heron, a good days work in 8 hours with an average of about 20m per site and an expected 10% per system chance of a relic site you might see a good 20-25 sites, if you’re lucky, if you’re unlucky you will see about 15. You’re talking now about having 300-700m isk in your little heron that can’t fight back. If you die on your way back as is the bane of many explorers. Congratulations you’ve not only lost all your time, but all the money you just gained. So please do not try to lecture me on this, as I have far more experience then you do when it comes to exploration.

Not to mention you’re replies have been with very little context, and are plain blanket statements, which I actually believe at this point your trolling.

Now to get back on topic, please go re-read my original post and it has nothing to do with me personally wanting more isk per hour, but to help make exploration better, the things we find more useful and to add a slight chance to get an escalation to add more content to the game.

Please do not reply to me if you’re not going to be putting some thought into it, I’ve already countered your myths with facts and if you continue you repeat yourself, I will just flag it as off topic.

I want to hear from explorers, not someone who can’t keep 20m in his wallet pretending at playing eve.


(Jeremiah Saken) #9

:roll_eyes:
and that should impress us, how?

your suggestion about data sites escalations suggest that.

I’m doing exploration for a living, in fact I just PLEX my account for an year for ISKs that came from exploration.


(Ramona McCandless) #10

Apart from;

As for

Just because you are slow and bad at it, doesnt mean I am not allowed an opinion on the subject.

I never stated this. This is something you have decided. Both operations are as “valuable” as each other. Whether they make the same Isk/hr is not the same thing. You are far more likely to be in danger running DED sites than your posiiton that Exploration is in some way dangerous.

Your point is that Exploration should be “better”. There is no reason why an easy, relatively safe occupation as this should net you more reward while being “safer” than any other.

You are, you are just already deciding you dont want to listen.


(Elisha Valor) #11

It’s not something to be impressed about, it’s an indication of my commitment to what I find as the most exciting and fun thing to do in eve online. We all take our own routes, I do not ignore my elders advice in real life when it comes to matters I do not understand. And in such I wouldn’t dismiss people who live, and breath this subject (at least while they are playing eve online).

The escalation for data sites, I can’t believe I have to repeat myself. You can’t take something I’ve said clearly and assert your own assumptions on it. I made it clear that data sites were lacking, and that causing them to have escalations would encourage people to run them. In effect players getting escalations that allow them a private site to hack would prove useful against explorer hunting. Exploration escalations already exist, for drone space. I’d like to see that applied to pirate faction data sites.

I’m glad to hear that you do exploration for a living in eve online. I’m currently sitting on enough isk to plex my account for years. 18.3 years, or 220 months. I do not need isk I do it for the enjoyment it’s what I do to have fun.


(Elisha Valor) #12

You’re clearly not listening. Nothing aforementioned makes exploration easier, it solves the issue with players not running data sites, it brings sleeper cache loot up to 2018 standards and it creates content. Running 10/10 DeD site’s in my extensive experience far more profitable about 4-5 billion a day in the same 8 hours as an explorer where on a great day I’ll breach 1b, and it’s much more safe, as any serious ded hunter is in an corp which is in an alliance that holds large sums of sov, that has a channel dedicated to selling them, in endless supplies.


(Jeremiah Saken) #13

what can encourage ppl to do data sites is how much will they can pull from them, not the mechanics itself. Adding escalation to sites than nobody want to touch don’t make the sites worth to do magically. BTW data sites are not worthless if you do R&D. CCP missed an opportunity to make sites better when they introduced citadels. Few items neccesary to build them would make those sites better.


(Elisha Valor) #14

Furthermore you’re clearly not serious about discussing what I brought up, you’re more consumed on “What do I get out of it” versus the merits of what I’ve brought to the table. I’m done talking to you.


(Ramona McCandless) #15

Your position is that

  1. Exploration is not at as profitable than other activies

  2. Exploration is dangerous

  3. Exploration isnt content driven enough

Is this a fair summation of what you are saying here or not?


(Elisha Valor) #16

I agree with you players will be more drawn to data sites if they produce more ISK, however I do not feel that is a proper solution to just add more into the cans to solve the problem. That crashes the economy in certain markets that rely on the quantities that exist to roughly stay the same with in a 5-10% margin. Which ironically is the suggested escalation rate I mentioned.

Furthermore if you knew that the top data site could spawn you a private ghost site, you might be more inclined to try to run the data sites, and get a chain escalation or you might actually be excited to run the Data Mining Sites (Level 4) when you see them as you will have that chance at an Improved Covert Facility.


(Ramona McCandless) #17

Most of my Data and Relic pulls are funneled directly into my industry chaps for manfacture, with very little in the way of sales. With the tools currently available its fairly easy to increase the value of so called “useless” or “poor” sites considerably.


(Jeremiah Saken) #18

Why relic sites are more worth than data sites?


(Elisha Valor) #19

No It’s not a fair assumption of what I am saying, save for exploration is dangerous which has zero baring on the subject outside of the risk versus reward.

What you should draw from this topic, since I didn’t know I needed a TL:DR.

Go back and read my topic. I do not feel the need to spoon feed you, but I will congratulate you on your successful passive aggressive assumption of the worst trolling effort.

I take that back since I don’t want to talk to you ever again, here it is.

TL:DR Exploration is lacking and should be brought up to meet the needs of players in 2018 and beyond. Data sites in null security space are in poor shape since the SAAR were removed and something has to be done to make them more viable, which I posted in my suggestions. Nothing in this thread was about me making more isk per hour, as I can already buy 3 fully fit titans or subscribe to eve for 18.3 years, of which I already have an account subbed until the end of 2019. I also threw in some suggestions to make wormhole exploration less taxing.


(Elisha Valor) #20

Relic sites are more profitable than data sites, because Relic Sites contain tech 2 salvage often used in tech 2 manufacturing especially that of rigs. Current data site drops are low in the things that are needed for specific manufacturing, you can take the Zuegma analyzer for instance. Since the SAAR drop rate was increased 1000% they went down from 10m a pop to less then 200k a pop in the matter of 2 weeks. the SAAR BPCS dropped from null sec data sites. The reason primarily people ran null data sites was to hope to find those, the collateral damage from people wanting those BPC’s was that they looted other manufacturing goods. Now because the average loot from a site is between 1-10 million isk while the average loot from a Relic site is 20-100m isk, there is no comparison on what you should be spending your time on, and if people are in local is it worth risking a 300m Astero on a hot drop just to make 10m from a data site.