Faction Warfare and Warp core stabilizers

Council Of Stellar Management Assembly Hall
1

Hello!

This is my first post but I’m new to PVP/FW and have an issue I’d like to discuss.

I’m doing faction warfare and I have a fit I’d like to use. It’s a neut tristan, 3 neuts, a scram and an afterburner. I can choose my fights and I think the fit has a lot of potential, there’s just one problem that sinks the idea, kiters. If I fit a warp core stabilizer, this is potentially a very good fit, I can pick my fights and run from kiters if I get unlucky enough to get one. I tried to activate an acceleration gate with my warp core stab fit and got denied entry. Am I assuming correctly this is to stop people farming LP and not taking fights by stacking warp core stabs in the lows? This is not my intention, and I am writing to request that you allow ships to fit a single warp core stabilizer when participating in faction warfare. A scram will still work on any potential farmers and I’ll get to use the fit I desire.

Could you please consider this?

Lynchy226

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Denied.

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You are literally asking to be able to run away from a fight, but somehow it’s not the same running away from a fight as another players choice to do so?

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What I am saying is, warp core stabilizers are banned because people use them to farm complexes for LP. What I want is to use them for a legitimate, good PVP reason (I have a fit in mind that might be excellent). It also helps that the reason they were originally banned for is not infringed as the farmers can still be stopped by a scram.

And yes, running away from fights you can’t take is an important part of PVP, as far as I can tell as someone new to it.

I’m willing to sacrifice a low slot, lock time and targeting range for scram range only fights. I think this is a legitimate pvp use of the warp core stabilizer.

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I’m confused - who has banned Warp Core Stabilisers ?

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This was a change made a few years ago because WCS were being abused in FW.

I don’t really see a need to change it, because the fix has been doing what was intended - making it harder for people to run away from these fights.

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49-F Propaganda
49-F Propaganda1500×1000 202 KB

By the way, warp core stabilizers hurt your lock speed and lock range, and take up a valuable slot. So, you’re probably better off without it anyway.

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I’ve done a bit of FW but I wasn’t aware of that - does it apply across the whole of an FW system ?

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Plexes only. It was to stop farmers who had no intention of fighting from bringing in WCS’s. Farmers then switched to ventures before those were prohibited as well.

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Thanks - I misunderstood it to mean someone was saying WCS’s were banned across whole systems :blush:

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There is no legitimate reason to use WCS in PvP. Fitting WCS is a decision to make your ship less effective in combat in exchange for a chance of running away if you screw up and get into a fight you should have evaded. Fit your ship to win, not to fail.

Also, FFS, it’s a T1 frigate that costs almost nothing. Just go fight stuff and who cares if it dies.

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That’s not your choice to make.

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Please, tell me: what is the legitimate reason to use WCSs in PvP? Even using the least penalizing WCSs, you’re reducing targeting range and (arguably more important) Scan Resolution by 40%. What would be the ‘legitimate reason’ to use these in PvP? I’ll wait patiently for this reasoning.

The OP claims he wants to be able to pick his fights and he keeps losing to kiters. First of all, there are even less fights you can win when you have even just one WCS on your ship due to the loss of range and resolution. Reducing resolution increases lock time and that’s time your opponent is applying damage and you are not.

It also takes up a slot that could be used for another module. You could fit a damage Control module. Or in the case of a neut Tristian, you could fit a DDA. I know which one is more likely to win you a fight and it isn’t the WCS.

I’d suggest the OP learn how to slingshot enemies. Sure there will be pilots good enough to not let him slingshot around him… but that’s the live of EVE. You aren’t going to win every fight… especially if someone has a fit that counters yours.

Also, if he’s fighting in FW complex, he’s flying pretty awful if a kiter beats him since the kiter is going to warp in at the same spot he did. He can sit there and wait. And if he doesn’t have a WCS, he can lock the kiter as fast as the kiter can lock him… then scram him and if he pilots properly, the kiter should never be able to really pull range on him.

But again, give me a legitimate reason a PvPer would fit a warp core stabilizer… please… this should be good.

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I’m not saying it’s a good idea, but the legitimate reason is that it’s permitted by the rules of the game.

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Bomber or smartbomber has no need to lock up targets to deal damage in PvP.

WCS give them a big benefit with the only downside of taking a low slot.

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And it’s not yours. Only CCP can make changes, but that doesn’t stop anyone from posting about what should be done.

I’m not saying it’s a good idea, but the legitimate reason is that it’s permitted by the rules of the game.

And the rules should be changed (by removing WCS from the game). Why is this so hard to understand?

17

Have you ever used a stealth bomber for a bombing run? First of all, you generally need multiple bombs to destroy anything. And in the case of faction warfare (which is the situation we are discussing), its worse because bombs apply horribly to frigates because of their small size.

Moving on to smartbombs, do you know what the range for the largest smartbomb is? I had to go check. Its a whole 6k. And that’s for battleship sized smart bombs. When you go down to the ones that can be fitted by cruisers, you’re down to 4k radius. Technically, you could fit a large (battleship) sized smartbomb on a cruiser, but it would take up around 90% of your powergrid. For one of them, which means your overall DPS would be much lower than fitting more of the mediums.

Furthermore smartbombs are generally not used in PvP to actually destroy and damage the other ship. Yes, they are used in mass quantities for gate camps; but, that’s much more different than FW PvP. Outside of gate camps, smartbombs are generally used for clearing drones off of your ship. I’m sure there are other purposes; but, I doubt those purposes fit the world of FW PvP very often… if at all.

In short: bombs and smartbombs really aren’t related to this discussion and you’re attempting a red herring argument fallacy here by not staying on the topic of “What legitimate reason would a PvP fit a WCS?”

Here’s where your wrong. And I already explained this. The only downside is not taking a low slot, its also a reduction in targeting range and scan resolution. If you believe reducing scan resolution is not a downside, you clearly haven’t done a lot of PvP. So, I’m gonna open up Pyfa here. With skills to all 5, a Tristan has a scan resolution of 750, meaning it can lock a frigate in about 2.8 seconds. When I put in a WCS 2 (which gives us the least penalties), the scan resolution drops to 450; which increases its lock time on frigates to 4.7 seconds. So, 2 seconds slower on the lock. That’s 2 seconds longer where you are not applying DPS or, in the case of the OP, neuts.

Finally, you still didn’t answer my question: what legitimate reason would a PvPer fit a WCS? Saying they provide “a big benefit” isn’t a legitimate reason for a PvPer to fit one. Mining Laser Upgrades provide a big benefit too; but, I’m not fitting one on any of my PvP ships.

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Again, bombing and smartbombing are PvP activities where fitting a WCS has little downsides.

Sure, within the context of faction warfare you won’t see these often, but that doesn’t make it any less true that PvPers who are using those weapons have little downsides for using WCS in PvP.

Not within the context I was talking about.

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A bomber should never be on grid long enough for a warp disruptor to matter. For a bombing run, you make sure you’re at top speed, you drop your cloak, fire your bomb, align out, and warp.

Let’s also talk reality. I won’t say nobody fits WCS on their stealth bombers because I’m sure there is someone who does it. But I doubt you’ll find anyone in Bombers Bar who flies with WCS. And I’m pretty sure they are considered the foremost experts on bombers in Eve Online.
EDIT: Go to fittin.gs and search every Stealth Bomber… not a WCS among the 4 of them.

The context we are discussing is Faction Warfare. Again, you’re trying to red herring this discussion. Would you like for me to pull the DPS numbers for frigate smart bombs and their range? Its laughable.

You’re not willing to stay on topic since you keep wanting to leave the realities on PvP in faction warfare by bringing up weapons that are used less than rarely in faction warfare… which means you’re unwilling to have an honest discussion about WCS in faction warfare PvP.

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Nah, I was just answering your question of “what legitimate reason would a PvPer fit a WCS?”.

But you keep dismissing my example as a red herring. Sure, it’s not applicable in the context of faction warfare, but that wasn’t your question.