Feature request: Production Plans

TL;DR: Organize “blueprints + saved fits” into Production Plan (PP) - a list of production/reaction/etc steps necessary to build new ships/equipement/structures/etc with less clicks and have more time and fun using them. Though input materials would still be needed to be supplied manually. Would work like regular BPs and its steps be automatically executed one by one by Industry service module with all requirements for running component manufacture/science/reaction jobs.

Everybody should know what a Skill Plan is and what good it can do for you or your corp.
Also everybody knows what a Saved/Shared fitting is and how it can save time in terms of explaining stuff to others …and clicks.

Let’s take it further and apply this “meta game mechanics as built-in game mechanics” approach to production. Introducing:

The Production Plan

First of all it is already covered by lore. Seriously.

The Gallente Federation passed it into law as “AID Act” (short for “Automated Industry for Democracy Act”) on YC125-06-09

Basic working idea

Production Plan (PP lol) would consist of a list of steps, that need to be executed (automatically) in a sequence (or in parallel) by the regular Industry service module of the station or Upwell structure.

Basic steps of a PP would be a manufacture/science/reaction jobs. These would require use of certain BP/RF of various efficiency (sufficient number of runs in case of BPCs) and supplying components made by earlier steps of the PP or raw materials/sub-components delivered to container or hangar specified in the PP.

Other steps could include:

  • start tailored Skill Plan to ensure the produced item will be usable (in case of personal use of PP).
  • use Saved/Shared fitting to fully equip a ship that was produced, along with the produced/supplied equipment.
  • fill cargo-hold with additional ammunition, fuel etc., that has also been produced in this PP.
  • put products into standard/station/freight containers (that could also be made in an earlier step)
  • reprocess something (like container containing some of the input components/raw materials packaged for delivery)
  • make a BPC to parallelize further production plan steps
  • it is tempting to have a step executing a sub-PP but maybe it would be too much?

Some manual tasks outside of the plan would still be needed, like procuring and supplying raw materials, commodities, components, reaction formulas (for reaction job steps), etc.

Let’s dive into details

PP could be made into an inventory item just like BPOs and BPCs are - you would need to ship them from station to station for the output to be at certain location. Then install it like a BP/RF in Industry service module slot and run.

To produce a PP one would need to buy a Production Plan Blank (PPB) from an NPC Corporation. Maybe Duvolle Laboratories since AID Act is a Gallente invention (lol), the corporation has cluster wide outreach and is known for its wide R&D area?

CCP could fix price and number of PPB sell orders seeded across cluster to maintain overall production balance in case introduction of this disruptive technology caused marked turmoil or crash from instant flood of goods. The price should be high enough at the beginning to not cause Black Friday rush. The amount of clicks and repetitive manual tasks reduced would surely justify this imho. Time is money after all.

PPB would have it’s own action in pop-up menu - Edit Production Plan for instance or simply Activate. Upon clicking it a PP editor would open. Here would be a place to choose steps from the toolbox, assign which BPOs to use (no BPCs allowed) and in which order. Each step would have parameters accordingly, time duration (industry job type steps would infer it from the BPOs run time used, but other steps could have own run time to not make it completely instant. Ex. splitting stacks of items into sub-stacks - each split would need a second or few to complete.

PP would require bundling in all owned and required BPOs used by it. This would effectively remove them from the owner’s storage and store them into PP. This would be called PPO (PP original).

A starting template for PPO could be generated from top to bottom from the “last” BPO (or straight from Saved/Shared fitting) along with the BOM and Skill requirements ofc.

Additional set up of other steps like skill plan, fitting or cargo filling would be done manually in the PP editor.

An option to test run and simulation production, along with times calculated could also be here.

If it is too easy for hardcore "New Edenites" already looking in horror at any attempt of “to make it easier”, please let me elevator pitch my case. Look at it this way: to produce ships for PvP (or PvE) somebody needs to spent their time on it. Mine minerals (or worse do PI lol). Meticulously click through manufacture job setup, monitor jobs progress, chain those components for another manufacture job(s). Little time left for fun. And game begins to feel more like a job :confused:

Additional thoughts

PPO would have much greater contract value than all the BPO’s bundled into it separately because of all the knowledge and expertise enchanted into PP. And a time saving aspect, making it a highly guarded asset. Imagine how much it would optimize warfare logistics by efficiently providing ships ready for combat. No shuffling BPOs no more making copies etc etc.

PP could be used for Production type Corp projects with one mouse drag instead of choosing item type.
Or just use it to mass-produce fully equipped ships for your world domination fleet at your Sotiyos?

PP should have some progress indicator (with milestones?) that could be seen in Corp Project. It could look similarly to skill plan tracking windows? Based on PP BOM displayed in Corp project it could trace members resources contribution to it. And automatically pay them.

Maybe preparing of PP should require new Mass production planning skill allowing for 5 additional steps per level, and new Advanced mass production planning skill adding another extra 5 steps per level?

If there would be a step allowing for execution of sub-production plan, then there should be another skill path controlling the maximum number of Production plans a character can have?

And maybe those skills should be omega only?

If you have PPO you could modify it, delete it (to extract all the contained BPOs back) or use copy job to produce PPC (copies) with required runs. This would automatically produce BPC’s for all the contained BPOs with required number of runs to ensure successful production jobs. Maybe using particular steps in PPO could render it uncopiable? Like selecting a certain storage for output/input.

PPCs should be sealed off without an option to see the arrangement of steps. BOM, Skill requirements and output visible only.

PPO could be sold or licensed as PPC for a fee (or free) to other Capsuleers via regular contracts just like BPOs and BPCs are now.

While the Production plan could be licensed (as PPCs) to multiple entities it could create some interesting market situations where know-how is sold(shared) rather than a final product.

Since BPOs/BPCs of various efficiency would be involved two PPs for making the same output would not necessarily be equal as better efficiency BPOs/BPCs would make for overall more efficient Production Plan BOM and shorter production time. So these should be an important parameters for comparing two PPs.

Final thought

EVE should be fun to play. It should not feel like a “job” even when doing/planning complex tasks. There is so much to choose from to do in New Eden already and so much equipment necessary and preparations for fitting ships accordingly, so those involved in production click-fest can feel under pressure of not having time to actually play after factoring-in RL, then burn out and turn into bitter vets over time.

I might be exaggerating a little for dramatic purposes but this is a serious problem of the growing complexity of the game requiring longer and longer click-paths to produce things. This is a proposition to shorten them and lessen the drudgery.


Edited on 2023-12-18T00:58:00Z

Add 1.1

Further ballancing could be achieved by externally influencing PPOs/PPCs times of starting next step after current steps ends. Something akin to system index already influencing jobs costs. Maybe it could influence both and step switch time could have additional modifier.

Perhaps in the future when EVE Vanguard is released and the link with EVE Online fully operational, Capsuleers could issue industrial espionage/sabotage contracts to Vanguards to influence execution of PPOs or secretly obtain PPCs from the competition with the help of Vanguards. But this is a case for a separate thread on some future occasion ofc

Add 1.2

More advanced T2 or T3 industry PPOs (and possibly their PPCs) could be designed by adding invention job type step. This would make the PPO duration undeterministic as well copying it into a PPC. As the invention job has success probability factor and may or may not yield BPC during run and may need to be repeated. This rerun of invention job within PP should be automatic until succes is achieved.

Perhaps designing of T2/T3 PPO should require posession of all the rare components at hand for PPO editor to work correctly. Maybe same should be required for T1 PPOs?

Add 1.3

In order to install and run a PPO/PPC the capsuleer would need to have all the skills required by component BPs/RFs.

PPO/PPC could work like PI schematics ie. no manual output deliver required. The only condition for it to run after installation would be all the consumables in the specified input storage present. Otherwise it pauses untill all components are available again. PPCs would automatically uninstall after exhausting their specified number of runs.

Add 1.4

Perhaps as @Eney_Issier suggested a new type of Industrial service module slot should be necessary to run PPs as BPs and RFs require different types of slots and RF require specific locations.

Mentioned earlier, possibility of paralellization of job type steps would require enough jobs allowed by skills affecting it. The PP editor could take care of checking it and allowing for as much parallel jobs as skills allow.

Add 1.5

Bundling BPOs into PPO should not necessarily make them unavailable to owner for running individually/improving efficiency/copying/invention. But should lock the PPO for execution until all jobs finish and output is delivered thous freeing BPOs.

Add 1.6

I’ve just learned about existence of R.A.M.'s but I can’t find any exhaustive info on them and I don’t know how they work exactly and if they can already do what is proposed here.

While searching for info on R.A.M.'s I’ve found EVE Industry Planner by @Oswold_Saraki and I would be very interested in hearing your opinion on the idea of PP :slight_smile:

Very nice idea.

An idea here might be that stations have assembly line slots into which one of production plans can be installed, those assembly line slots have two options: picky and chained related to manufacturing slots.

Picky means any production step in the plan is going to be done in one at a certain time available manufacturing slot if no slot is available then plan pauses. Cheaper than

Chained means one manufacturing slot is rented for the entire duration of the plan, more costy.

If entirely fitting prepared ships roll from an assembly line then another possibly new item is the fitting plan.

A fitting plan works followings: if all items plus a ship in a fitting plan are in a hangar right clicking on it and choosing activate delivers one activated and fitted ship.

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Any chance to get you CSM back this?

…or tell us something like this is already in the making :slight_smile:

I’ve heard (from a CSM campaign candidade) already of PI templates being developed at CCP Shanghai (btw, any ETA on this?)

This must be a thing dubbed as “Itinerant Forge” project by Minmattar Republic in New Eden news :slight_smile:

So this PP idea could be hinted as already being in the making too and disguised as Gallente “Automated Industry for Democracy Act” I’ve mentioned in the linked post :slight_smile:

Plz tell me I guessed it right, more or less :face_holding_back_tears:

The main drive behind my pitch is to lessen industrial grind/click-fest which makes that part of EVE feel more like a boring job than fun play. There is so much content already and all of this require ships fitted accordingly. Somebody needs to produce them and spend her time on it instead of having more fun using them. I hope you can see what I am trying to nab here.

T2 production explained

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Thanks, for the link, I thought for a while R.A.M.'s are some permanent structures that are fed BP and raw materials and already do what PP are supposed to achieve. And I see they are just another components required by T2 industry.

Perhaps this entry in EVE University WIKI is a little misleading and needs some refinement :wink:

“Robotic Assembly Modules, more commonly known as R.A.M.s, are robotic assembly units that build things for you. They are manufactured from minerals just like any other Tech 1 manufacturing process. Nine different R.A.M.s exist, for different types of construction: Starship Tech, Ammunition Tech, Cybernetics, etc.”

Well to be honest, considering that these days Computer Numerical Controlled Machines combined in the next three decades with AI, are most likely the reality equivalent of Robotic Assembly Modules, the question arises is eve industry outdated by reality in the next century.

That is these days we have MAKERS aka printers employing industrial materials.

Eventually the whole industry product tree would profit from a redesign.

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Dear CSM, any hope for that happening?

…at least allow its use in Gallente Stations with Industry Service, since AID Act is Gallente Democracy achievement :stuck_out_tongue:

[Edit] 2024-03-13T12:15:00Z
This is not about more profit by producing more goods faster and sell faster. This can easily be balanced with adjusting task switch times or increasing job costs ( …again :wink: ).

Task switch times could even get affected by some system wide factors or station state related. Or by Vanguards doing some sabotage contracts to be available maybe in the future :thinking:

The feature request is about reducing (mostly unnecessary imho) “yak shaving”[1] to the reasonable minimum by moving all the manual repeatable tasks (one time - when designing PP) to the production pipeline to be run in loop until somebody stops it or it waits for resources necessary for the present task selected for execution. Then continue execution immediatelly upon suplying missing resource to the storage set for the pipeline.

And procuring those resources would be the only yak shaving necessary. It could get reduced even more thanks to incoming corp projects for non-members.

Imagine a few such corp projects for turning in resources in exchange for ISK. Everybody is happy. Corp management gets steady resource inflow for uninterrupted production and non-members get automatically paid just for docking and unloading their yield. No market UI hassle for them and they can get back to mining immediatelly and watch space rock operas, lick ice or huff :slight_smile: And corp pilots get fast replacements from stable SRPs.

  1. by “yak shaving” i mean all the tedious chores one must do before undocking and having fun with time thats left after yak shaving is done ↩︎

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