Fight at a snail's pace


(Arisha Moon) #1

why can not we still fight liquid in big fight? Is it still due to the hardware or is it simply because it does not want to be done? I mean the processing power is increasing, but the big battles are still slowing down 10 times. Why is this so? The timers continue to run at normal speed, but everything else in slowmotion …


(Nora Maldoran) #2

Imagine the server is a guest at a running shushi bar that has the task to eat everything coming down the lane. The players are the ones filling the lane with food (requests).
The server has to eat it all. Every single bit. But his mouth is only so big and he can only chew that fast. The only option he can eat everything without letting something pass him, is to slow the lane down. Meanwhile the lane gets filled at the same speed: we have Tidi.

Other games limit the ammount of players on one server and have more than one. Tidi is a kind of price we have to pay for one server.

And of course the hardware got better. I’m sure some vets can tell stories of 300 people in one system already causing time dialation.


(Arisha Moon) #3

So it will never get better? As I understand it, has it always been like this with eve?


(Nora Maldoran) #4

I did not say that.


(Arisha Moon) #5

But has it always been like that? or has that improved?


(ISD Sakimura) #6

Yes it has always been like that, well TIDI was added some years back, but generally it’s always been that way. You should also remember that it’s not as much a Hardware problem as it is with an outdated Legacy Code still controlling much of the key systems, which can’t easily be replaced from one week to the next.


(Scheulagh Santorine) #7

Arisha,

My recollection of CCP Warlock’s work on the complexity of the EVE cluster is quite rusty. There used to be a slide deck but I can’t find it just now. I think the best way to explain it is just to think about the message passing that EVE has to accomplish to update the events in the world. See, in an EVE fight with n people on grid, you have this problem that all (n-1) of them has to be updated on what each other n are doing. That means that for every person on the grid, you have approximately n^2 interactions to keep track of.

CMOS scaling gets better every year, sure. We down to 7nm and 5nm will be available soon. But passing messages within the hardware is limited by the separation of memory and processing in all Von Neumann compute architectures. Most other games out there are limited to 100 player interactions or less. If you tried to play PUBG with 3000 players (an equivalent scale of fights in EVE) it wouldn’t be a 30x bigger problem, but a 900x bigger problem in message passing!

Think on it.

Best,

Santorine


(Sasha Viderzei) #8

It has always been like that, on a different scale. Back in the old days were I didn’t even know the game, 300 players could crash the server (or slow it way down). Now, Jita contain 2000 (scammers) players on a daily basis and my old PC only freeze for some seconds to charge all those characters.

And the hardware will get better. It’s like everything in the gaming industry, or simply when it concern any technology : there’s always room for improvment.
I don’t have the picture with me, but I remember a old photo in black and white with a “supercomputer” filling an entire street being installed in a house. That behemoth could only use 500mB (if I remember well), which every computer have today, even granny laptop. That improvement will affect ours servers as much as it did in the past :slight_smile:


(system) #9

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